New Online DBA being launched

I don't think that the question is whether or not this DBA program is consistent or inconsistent with Regent's doctrine.

The issue that's important here on Degreeinfo is whether or not Regent's doctrine is consistent with individuals seeking DL DBA programs.

The first post in this thread announced this program without any mention of the program's religious (and political) distinctives.

People routinely suggest Liberty and Regent to inquirers, without any knowlege of the inquirer's religious and political commitments.

In other words, while I have definite opinions about these sorts of schools (and strong ones), I don't challenge their existence. But I do think that they should be recommended responsibly.

 

Your opinion is obviously not shared by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools.

If I understand correctly, you are insisting that it is somehow wrong for an institution to teach an academic subject, business in this case, from a religious perspective. How do you support this claim?

 

Hi Bill,

Remember discussing Ave Maria and Liberty Law Schools?
You were smelling theocratic fatwas.

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11215&highlight=Liberty

Now, I think it's a little bit ironic that Rich is the only person here issuing absolute pronouncements. He certainly appears to question their right to exist.

 

You're right, SACS doesn't share my opinion. But that's okay, it's my opinion. I don't have to prove it, but I should take care in adequately explaining it.

My problem with the religious bent is the presumption about something that many people take very seriously, religion, and is irrelevant to the subject matter. The effective study of business administration is not dependent upon one's religious beliefs. If the DBA program introduced another belief system, say vegetarianism (is that a word?), would that be okay? Wouldn't some people wonder why the doctoral-level study of business was predicated on one's eating habits? Well, it's the same thing with religion. What does one (religion) have to do with the other (business administration)? If the degree was in church administration, I might be able to see it, but it still would exclude non-Christians who run (or want to run) churches.

Religion is irrelevant to the academic study of business administration. That's why I object to it. And don't think that SACS accreditation means SACS approves of it. It's not that simple. What can safely be inferred is that the introduction of religous precepts into a business curriculum isn't sufficient for SACS to take action. Now, they may think it's just fine, but that isn't established.

 

I don't see the relevance of that thread to this one.

I also think that my 'fatwa' remark (one word in a post two now years old) was apt in its context, and that my concerns stated there have never been satisfactorily addressed.

I don't think that Rich ever questioned the Regent DBA program's right to exist.

He did question the academic propriety of including purported religious revelations as absolute and unquestionable presuppositions in academic programs treating secular subjects. I'm inclined to agree with him about that.

That's one of the reasons why I suggested that when programs like this are recommended here on Degreeinfo, it be made perfectly clear from the very beginning that these are conservative Christian presuppositional programs with a strong sense of mission, and that they might not be appropriate for everyone.

 

Rich,

Why not? Here's an example:

http://www.mum.edu/management/phd/welcome.html

I will assume that you do not approve of MUM's Ph.D. in Management either.

 

Here's a bonus for those studying at MUM

http://mum.edu/introduction/

 

I certainly don't.

Actually, I think that MUM is probably flakier than Regent. Both schools seek to color their business doctorates with religious revelations. But Regent's choice of revelations is more orthodox and mainstream, at least to conservative Protestants. MUM's doctrines are more heterodox, even in a Hindu context, peculiar to the imagination of one man who seems to dominate this school WAY too much.

If I had to name a few of the most doubtful RA schools in the United States, MUM would probably be one of them. Not because it isn't Christian. (I'm not Christian.) But in large part because its peculiar doctrines seem to dominate the rest of its content, and because both intellectually and administratively it seems to be the plaything of a single individual.

I understand that MUM offers a DL MBA and some individual DL classes including a course in Sanskrit that I considered taking myself. (They are hard to find.)

But if anyone were to suggest an MUM degree program here on Degreeinfo, particularly if they knew nothing about the inquirer's religious proclivities, (I don't recall it ever happening), I'd make the same objection that I made above about recommending Regent.

 

Well Bill, in the words of our esteemed Dr. Levicoff, you take your self much too seriously.

I hardly see how it's your duty or Rich's duty to decide how any academic institution should go about acomplishing its mission.

Neither Regent nor MUM are unique in educating from a particular worldview.

Regis University:

http://www.regis.edu/regis.asp?sctn=abt&p1=mjv

Touro College:

http://www.touro.edu/general/mission.asp


University of Notre Dame:

http://www.nd.edu/~cba/011221/about/video_welcome.shtml

http://www.nd.edu/~cba/011221/press/2005/factsAtAGlance.shtml#statement_purpose

 

I'm not making any decisions for anyone. I just made a rather innocuous point:

If a program is pervasively sectarian, if it has an explicit sense of calling and mission, and if religious revelation frames the boundaries of acceptable discussion in what would otherwise be secular subjects, then I think that potential students should be made aware of that fact from the very beginning.

(That's probably true for heavily politicized programs as well. Religious programs aren't the only offenders here.)

I'm sure that a school like Notre Dame hopes that its Catholic values rub off on its students. But I also expect that Notre Dame students of whatever faith are free to follow the argument in their secular subjects wherever it leads, without the discussion being either limited or motivated by specifically Catholic purposes and doctrines.

If I'm mistaken and that isn't true, then I think that prospective students should be made aware of the fact.

In the case of some other schools out there, I'm not nearly so confident that religious (or political) doctrines or agendas don't unduly influence program content. Here's the course descriptions for MUM's Ph.D. in management. People can form their own opinions:

http://www.mum.edu/management/phd/courses.html

I would never suggest that MUM shouldn't exist or that students shouldn't study there. But I do believe that any student thinking of studying at MUM had better like what Maharishi Mahesh Yogi is teaching. It's going to be pretty hard to avoid it, no matter what your major. If you express ideas too loudly that contradict his, you might not survive in your doctoral program very long.

 

Jesuit Education

I will conclude my comments on this thread with a little something from the Jesuits. The degrees listed below are awarded by at least one of the 28 Jesuit colleges and universities in the United States. I can only assume that Dr. Douglas thinks that all of these degrees are somehow not legitimate. I'll assume Mr. Dayson accepts their legitimacy but would require potential students receive some sort of counseling prior to enrolling.

(*): Degree is offered online through JesuitNET
www.jesuit.net

Undergraduate Academic Degrees
AA: Associate of Arts
AAS: Accredited Associate of Arts
AB: Bachelor of Arts
AD: Associate Degree
ALS: Associate of Liberal Arts
AMM: Associate in Materials Management
AS: Associate of Science
ASEMS: Associate in Science in Emergency Medical Services
ASN: AS in Nursing
BA: Bachelor of Arts
BApSc: Bachelor of Applied Science
BAr: Bachelor of Architecture
BALS: BA in Liberal Studies
BAM: BA in Music
BBA: Bachelor of Business Administration
BBS: Bachelor of Business Science
BCE: Bachelor of Chemical Engineering
BCrJ: Bachelor of Criminal Justice
BEd: Bachelor of Education
BE: Bachelor of Engineering
BFA: Bachelor of Fine Arts
BGS: Bachelor of General Studies
BHRM: Bachelor of Human Resource Management
BLA: Bachelor of Liberal Arts
BLS: Bachelor of Liberal Studies
BM: Bachelor of Music
BME: Bachelor of Music Education
BMP: Bachelor of Music in Performance
BMS: Bachelor of Medical Science
BMT: Bachelor of Music Therapy
BPA: Bachelor of Public Administration
BS: Bachelor of Science
BSA: BS in Accounting
BSAts: BS in Atmospheric Sciences
BSBA: Bachelor in Business Administration
BSBM: BS in Business Management
BSC: BS in Commerce
BSCh: BS in Chemistry
BSCS: BS in Computer Science
BSChm: BS in Chemistry
BSE: BS in Engineering
BSEE: BS in Electrical Engineering
BSEd: BS in Education
BSEMS: BS in Emergency Medical Services
BSEvs: BS in Environmental Science
BSFS: BS in Foreign Service
BSLang: BS in Languages
BSLing: BS in Linguistics
BSMth: BS in Mathematics
BSN: BS in Nursing
BSOT: BS in Occupational Therapy
BSPhy: BS in Physics
BSPT: BS in Physical Therapy
BSSoc: BS in Sociology
BSSS: BS in Social Sciences
BSSW: BS in Social Work
BSW: Bachelor of Social Work
BUACS: Bachelor of Urban Affairs and Community Services
Cert: Certificate
Concentration: Concentration
DH: Developmentally Handicapped Certification
EdS: Education Specialist Certification
GE: Gifted Education Certification
MH: Multi-Handicapped Certification
SBH: Severe Behavior Handicapped Certification
SCC: School Counselor Certification
SLD: Specific Learning Disabled Certification
Graduate Academic Degrees
AC: Advanced Certificate
CAS: Certificate of Advanced Study
CAES: Certificate of Advanced Educational Specialization
CPASF: Certificate Program for Advanced Study in Finance
DCL: Doctor of Comparative Law
DDS: Doctor of Dental Surgery
DEE: Doctor of Engineering
DPT: Doctor of Physical Therapy
DSW: Doctor of Social Work
EdD: Doctor of Education
JD: Juris Doctor (Law)
LLM: Master of Laws
LP: Licentiate in Philosophy
MA: Master of Arts
MAA: MA in Administration
MAAE: MA in Applied Economics
MAAT: MA in Applied Theology
MAcc: Master of Accountancy
MAE: Master of Anesthesiology Education
MAOL: MA in Organizational Leadership
MALS: MA in Liberal Studies
MAPA: MA in Public Administration
MAPM: MA in Pastoral Ministry
MARE: MA in Religious Education
MAS: Master in Applied Spirituality
MAT: MA in Teaching
MATP: MA in Technical Psychology
MAUA: MA in Urban Affairs
MAW: MA in Writing
MBA: Master of Business Administration
MBAC: MBA in Chemistry
MBAPA: MBA in Professional Accounting
MBS: Master of Business Science
MCS: Master of Computer Science
MCSM: Master of Computer Systems Management
MD: Doctor of Medicine
MDiv: Master of Divinity
MEd: Master of Education
MEE: Master in Engineering
MEM: Master in Engineering Management
MES: Master in Engineering Science
MF: Master of Finance
MHA: Master in Health Administration
MHROD: Master in Human Resources/ Organization Development
MHSL: Master in Health Systems Leadership
MJ: Master of Jurispudence
MM: Master of Music
MME: Master of Music Education
Mmin: Master of Ministry
MMS: Master in Management Science
MMSt: Master in Modern Studies
MMT: Master of Music Therapy
MNM: Master of Nonprofit Management
MPA: Master of Public Administration
MPAc: Master in Professional Accounting
MPH: Master in Public Health
MPhil: Master of Philosophy
MEM: Master of Engineering Management
MPP: Master of Public Policy
MPrGph: Master of Professional Geophysics
MprMet: Master of Professional Meterology
MPS: Master of Public Safety
MPSt: Master of Pastoral Studies
MPT: Master of Physical Therapy
MPTh: Master of Pastoral Theology
MRA: Master in Rehabilitation Administration
MRE: Master of Religious Education
MS: Master of Science
MSAHA: MA in Allied Health Administration
MSCIS: MA in Computer Info Services
MSD: MS in Dentistry
MSEd: MS in Education
MSFM: MS in Financial Management
MSFS: MS in Foreign Service
MSM: MS in Management
MSN: Master in Nursing
MSOD: MS in Organizational Development
MST: MS in Teaching
MSTM: MS in Teaching Mathematics
MSW: Master of Social Work
MTS: Master of Theological Studies
OTD: Doctor of Occupational Therapy
PharmD: Doctor of Pharmacy
PhD: Doctor of Philosophy
PTD: Doctor of Physical Therapy

http://www.ajcunet.edu/areas/pubs/DegreePrograms/table.asp

Jesuit Education

http://www.sjweb.info/education/documents/characteristics_en.doc

http://www.sjweb.info/education/documents/pedagogy_en.doc

 

Rich, Bill, et. al.:

Let's just put it this way: there are literally millions of people in this country who believe that their faith, their values, have a tremendous amount to do with business and business ethics. To say that your values which are very much influenced by your faith don't have to do with the manner in which you administer your business is laughably naive. All you have to do is look at different cultures around the world and see the way their business behavior is influenced profoundly by their values, which are of course informed by their faith.

To suggest that using religious values as an undergirding for the study of business somehow makes the education tainted or non-academic (your words) is about the most ill-informed position I've yet read on this forum.

In short, Rich, Bill, why must an education be perfectly agnostic or allow room for debate over matters already settled in the minds of students before it can be deemed "academic"? This is sophistry. No, it's not sophistry, because sophistry at least must be somewhat plausible, I won't give you that much credit.

The only justification for such a point-of-view is if you're pretty much mathematically certain that religion is pure fantasy. If it is just dusty myths, then of course studying anything with religion as a framework would taint the study thereof, because it would be studying an discipline in the context of a lie, akin to teaching business administration from the perspective of racial supremacy. But guys, that's not the case here, the issue is not settled against religion like it is against white supremacy.

For you to think that a private institution is somehow tainted and the academic courses rendered "non-academic" because a religious school's made a decision on religious matters (how dare they?), that a bunch of born-again Christians (pretty much describes the student body of Regent) would have to sit there and debate you on fundamental matters of faith that they've already researched and decided upon, that they shouldn't have a right to gather in their PRIVATE institution and discuss business from a religious perspective, or they will be stamped with the ignomonious title "non-academic", and that you could actually find someone on this forum willing to agree with such an absurd position, shows me a great about about the deterioration of logic and reason in our country.

 

And I suppose that true higher education in the business field should say to have an utter lack of ethics, rip off your customers, abuse your employees and screw up their lives, lie about your financial status in your books of account, all while stealing several tens of millions of dollars from the company.

 

I don't think that anyone has ever disputed it.

Has anyone made that suggestion?

I guess that a lot depends on how the word 'undergirding' is being used.

If values (whether religious or not) are as fundamentally relevant to the practice of secular pursuits as you suggest they are, then I'd say that they need to be a part of the academic conversation.

If a university just announces that its fundamental values and doctrines are revealed by its God, and that those values must be accepted as absolute presuppositions in all subsequent thinking, then any opportunity to question or to disagree or to present alternatives to them has been silenced by simple fiat.

Not exactly.

You yourself wrote:

Rich, of course you're entitled to your views, but you don't really know if Atheism or Christianity has the corner on the truth--or Judaism or Islam or Buddhism or Paganism or Zoroastorianism, for that matter.

You can't know by using pure logic and human reason whether any set of beliefs is true, that's where faith comes in.

Religion might well involve the most profound truths imaginable. But if the only way that individuals can know that truth is in their own hearts, and if they are incapable of convincing those people who don't already feel it (or whose hearts tell them something else), then open questions will inevitably exist. Truth or no truth.

Nobody is going to take away your pervasively religious colleges.

But prospective students do need to know which schools are "religious schools" that have "made a decision on religious matters", which ones are schools where debate on "fundamental matters of faith" is inappropriate, and they need to know where those faith decisions circumscribe the boundaries of acceptable discussion or set the agenda in otherwise secular subjects.