National Christian Counselors Association (NCCA)

Assuming that Roys' claims are accurate (that is disputed indeed), please explain precisely where (from the perspective of biblical Christianity) Street violated the teaching of Scripture. Also, please note this is a red herring as it relates to my post.

 

I am not interested in having a debate about the merits of biblical counseling as a whole. Therefore, the accusations of debate-type "red herrings" are misplaced, since I've simply stated my own opinion. I've just pointed to an example of a teaching on abuse that most (normal) people would find horrifying.

 

Indeed. That sort of attitude helped bring down Paige Patterson at Southwest Baptist Seminary and is causing trouble in the Southern Baptist Convention and a host of other conservative Christian institutions. I believe the same issue reared its head at Bob Jones University (not taking claims seriously). It makes a certain segment of the Christian population look pretty unenlightened (not that much different than some fundamentalist Muslim ideas). That it comes out of or happens at institutions of higher education is even more bizarre.

When people have spoken up on these issues (such as Russell Moore of the SBC Ethics Board or Beth Moore - no relation) they have been hammered by ultra conservatives and ridiculed and harassed. I believe that they both left the SBC in disappoinment.

 

I'm sure there are multitudinous people who find the millennia-old moral teachings of orthodox Christianity (e.g., a prohibition of divorce) horrifying. Calling those individuals "normal people" assumes that evangelicals and conservative RC/EOs are abnormal-- a puerile and untrue assumption.

 

Here is the BJU situation with their Dean of Biblical Counseling (from 2014). Similar allegations of strange illogical and un sympathetic advice.

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/2014/12/11/report-suggests-personnel-action-former-bju-president/20245969/

 

Personally, I see a large difference between the hard ethical teachings of scripture and teachings that would violate the ethical consciences of normal individuals. I've never said that evangelicals or conservatives are abnormal in a general sense. There is an abnormal segment though.

 

As an SBC pastor, I'm quite familiar with these issues. I won't comment except to say these matters are far far more complex than what you'd cited here. This is not a divide between "ultra conservatives" and moderates.

 

And what, precisely, is the standard by which you are adjudicating what is "normal"?

 

Agree. Russell Moore, PhD is a conservative. He is however thoughtful. Represented very well in interviews on NPR.

What you are noting is a segment of the fundamentalist community that has some unbiblical (poor hermeneutical perspectives) and an anti integrationist approach to counseling (Bible alone). Which is somewhat like deciding you don't need medicine just the Bible and prayer.

 

And what, precisely, is the standard by which you are adjudicating what is "normal"?

a formed conscience, but I won't be having a debate.

 

I don't want a debate either. Rather, I'm interested in a cordial and irenic conversation. You said "a formed conscience" which I take to mean a subjective judgment call that is ultimately predicated upon inconsistent nihilism. Am I wrong?

 

Agreed.

That is quite a strawman. And btw, Russell Moore is a proponent of biblical counseling and a long-time antagonist of integrationism. Looks like you've got a contradiction there.

 

Short answer: Yes

You don't know anything about me, or my views in the realm of faith. To suggest that my views are "predicated upon inconsistent nihilism" is far from irenic.

 

I only know what you've written here. You said "a formed conscience" is how you determine what is normal. A conscience is necessarily a conceptual and subjective entity. Unsupported as it is, I'll take your paradoxical "yes" and move on.

 

"(Conscience) can mean (a) the pressure a man feels upon his will to do what he thinks is right; (b) his judgment as to what the content of right and wrong are. In sense (a) conscience is always to be followed." C.S. Lewis. "The Weight of Glory" quote.

 

Quod scripsi, scripsi