Martial Arts question

Although Krav maga does not offer the exhibitionistic choreographed techniques often observed in Bruce Lee/Steven Seagal flicks, the techniques one learns are based on actual and realistic battlefield experiences and do not rely on one being a gymnast to adequatedly protect themselves in a street encounter.

 

Well put. Sport TKD assumes a gymnastic ability in many of the advanced moves. Impractical and impossible for an older & taller person to pull off when he begins training in his 30's.

 

If there is a Kenpo school within driving distance you may want to check it out. It is quite a bit different than other martial arts on several levels but like most styles, it works better for some people than for others.

 

Although kenpo is a fine art, due to the unpredictable nature of a street encounter one must learn to defend themselves at all ranges as well as learn striking, throws, projections, locks, blocks and take downs as well understand that timing is more important than speed. The problem with arts that emphasize striking is that they are not comprehensive and are incomplete in regard to preparing a student for the diverse possible attacks that one can encounter in a street situation.

 

Simon makes a good point in that he has highlighted a fundamental distinction.

Some people study martial arts as a fitness routine. Some like the focus, it can be a type of meditation. Some are interested in self defense. Others are interested in competition. The art/teacher you choose should match up well with your goal.

 

I found a Krav Maga school nearby and they offer normal classes and a 5 day boot camp. It is 5 days / 10 hours per day with two seven minutes breaks (that’s it). The failure/drop out rate is 25%. The final “test” to earn a Level 1 certification is at the end of the fifth day. You need to defend yourself against two attackers for four minutes. The person I spoke to said many people just can’t do it because they are fatigued at that point. Now that sounds cool

 

I don't agree with such intense training regimens for the majority of neophytes in the martial arts because after twenty or so minutes the average person's learning curve starts to drop off and they are unable to absorb and recall the techniques and methods being demonstrated. These "so-called" boot camps are frequently over determined, especially for beginners, and appeal primarily to individuals who believe that they will be prepared for self-defense after a brief period of training. In fact the majority will not gain as much as they expect and the primary beneficiaries of these intense training camps are the individuals who sponsor these programs and who earn good money for their efforts.

It took me nine years to earn a legitimate black belt (1st-2nd Dan) in Aikijujitsu including inordinate numbers of hours to ingest and absorb the curriculum. Although krav Maga is not nearly as complex as the art I studied it still takes time to learn the foundation skills and to become reflexive. It should be learned in an environment that is conducive for learning, NOT one which inundates the student with such time pressures and the notion that only the strong shall survive. Perhaps after learning the foundation skills such a boot camp could have value BUT not for the initiate.

 

I have been watching these threads with interest. If you have not seen the new movie about Sherlock Holmes, I would suggest you go see it. Though the fight scenes are attributed to Bartitsu, and have been adapted to include the inner mind narration of Dim Mak applications as portrayed by Robert Downey Jr. A combination of different fighting skills, pressure point strikes, locks and holds can be seen. Another thing. The modification of kicks. While Holmes is in the ring, he kicks with his whole body (in MA speak, kicking from the floor). Why? It generates more power in comparison to a traditional kick (kicking with the ball of the foot). You can imagine a stomp like kick with street shoes on, rather than a ball kick. The power generated in the modified kick is superior. Simple fact. Of course, traditionlists who do not want to evolve will disagree. I won't get into though. What is shown in this movie very closely mirrors what I practice, thought I would not label it Bartitsu. You probably know this already, but steer away from using traditional martial art foot work in trying to apply it to street. In other words, if a street fighter is picking a fight, don't fall back into a horse stance. In a real fight application, traditional MA footwork (aja horse stance, forward stance, back stance, cat stance) do not apply. Do not throw a traditional MA thrust punch. You may want to study the footwork of western boxing and apply it to your current training.

The bottom line? You should practice a variety of arts and take knowledge from all of them. My suggestion to people that do not plan on studying combat arts for 30+ years? Become proficient in some easy to learn moves that do the most damage, practice them over and over again, and master them. If you look closely at a good street fighter, they do this. They master one or two moves that they are good at, and are able to knock out people VERY quickly.

I hope I do not start a hornets nest here. I do not wish to denegrate traditionalism. I still believe in the martial way of Respect, Reverance and humility. I still believe in bowing and calling one's master "Sir". Certain ways should never die. But fighting arts must evolve with the times in order to be effective.

So to summarize my long MA career. I learned how to fight in long circular patterns (points fighting), then progressed away from that into VERY close quarter fighting. A different way of looking at things.

Have a good weekend brother!

Abner

 

Although there is some merit in developing and perfecting several fighting techniques, the problem with doing so is that these techniques may be valid in certain circumstances (ie, the Octagon where rules predominate) but do not adequately prepare or address for the myriad unpredictable scenarios encountered in an actual street situation against one or more aggressors.

In addition regardless of martial art fighting style and expertise, it is always possible that an experienced martial artist can run into an street brawler or boxer with no formal martial arts training and be knocked on their arse! In fact a friend of mine with a third degree black belt in Japanese karate had the surprise of his life when he was knocked to the ground by a thug in the street. That is why I never underestimate the fighting capability of ANY adversary or overestimate my skills.

The benefit of martial arts based on realistic fighting scenarios (ie, Krav Maga) is that they have been tested in the real world, not only in dojos or on the mat, and have been proven to work and save lives without needing to commit to years of training.

 

BTW, many choreographed fight sequences such as observed in Sherlock Holmes, Bruce Lee, Steven Seagal films and others are merely that; choreographed. Although impressive to observe many of these techniques are primarily intended to impress and entertain audiences and are over-determined and unnecessary to finish an opponent. Unfortunately they mislead many in the public who believe that these fighting techniques (ie, high flying round house kicks, jumping on tree branches and catching arrows, etc, etc) are necessary to fight effectively in a street altercation when actually the simpler and straightforward a technique the less exposed the practitioner will be to a counter attack and the faster the encounter will end.

 

Well of course, I agree with your comments about choreography. Of course, one could say any set of drills are choreographed. One starts off with drills, and then is expected to freestyle according to any situation (even these freestyle situations can be flawed). I was merely saying the Holmes movie shows some good in close pressure point striking that can be applied very well in a street, as well as good kicks. Also, what appear to be harmless slapping strikes are actually well placed pressure point strikes designed to "tenderize" the opponent for the "finishing move". I liken a finishing move to the orange analogy. Inside the human cranium lies the brain like a delicate orange. The goal is to get in close, jar the brain/orange so that a concussion (cause the brain to move/jar within causing a short circuit effect) occurs. Now there are a whole myriad of ways to accomplish this. I will not begin to address all of them here, as I would have to write a dissertation on the topic. Knowing the knockout/disabling strikes, along with powerful, low kicks (knee level and below) are the most useful in street combat. As we can agree on, the quicker a conflict is over, the less chance one has in becoming harmed or dead. A high flying jumping kick on the street will most likely get you killed.

Have a good one,

Abner

I will also agree on Simon with this. Most do not have years and years to study the hundreds of meridians that run through the body. Something like Krav Maga is useful because it is quick and to the point. I always tell people to master a few effective moves, rather than try to master a few hundred (If there goal is not to become a lifelong MA). There was book on warfare I was reading. A famous general wrote "In the arena of hand to hand combat, the single most effective blow is the upward palm strike applied under the chin. It just never fails." I would agree with him. Why, the whiplish bone jarring affect. The brain and kneck are being :whipped back, and the cranium is being jarred at the same time. If you want to get really brutal, you slap the bottom back of the cranium as you apply a palm strike to the nose (a double short circuit).

 

Sorry for all the typos.

Abner

 

Is that so? My father told me that the most effective blow was a kick to the b_lls because they don't have muscles! ;-)

 

This is true! Of course, thanks to the martial arts movie industry, most male movie goers are highly protective of their yarbels. In other words, they expect someone to try and hit them there.

Abner