Making College More Expensive: The Unintended Consequences of Federal Tuition Aid

FYI...

J-1 is "visitor student/scholar".
F-1 is "foreign student" and actually required to study full time.

Both are "non-imigrant" visas. To get it, you actually have the responsibility to convince consular officer (and INS or whats-its-name-now officer at the port of entry) that you do not intent to stay in the U. S. of A., either legally or illegally. Consular worker has the right (and the duty) to see every applicant as potential illegal immigrant, until proven innocent.

H-1 is "visitor worker" ("skilled", if H-1B1), and do not have to prove non-immigrant intent. The number of H1Bs is capped at I beleive 60000 a year (I think universities are exempt though). Applicant should prove one's education, and employer should apply to DOL and INS for "approval", agreeing, among other things, to pay the worker the "prevailing wage". To change jobs, H-1 worker need to get new visa.

Being "lawful alien" does not entitle one to get Green Card, nor gives any additional "chances" for it (well, except for K-1 "mail order bride", but even they apply for GC on basis of marriage not nonimmigrant status).

 

Re: Re: Re: Schools are Economics Powerhouses today

In other words, your concerns do not bother anyone else, or, for that matter, bother you enough to do something about it. Well, too bad.

 

All loopholes Stan. All loopholes.

Let's take Anand as an example. Anand is single and gets a greencard. He then decides to marry. He cannot bring his wife over because he got his greencard BEFORE being married. So, he has to get his wife a student visa. Thus, she comes over with a loophole deal. Is she really a non-immigrant? Remember, her husband is here on greencard. That's immigrant.

 

So?
Anand pays her out-of-state tuition, and she still has to study fulltime and it won't help her to get her CG. Not to mention that she has to lie in consulate.

It's not a loophole.

 

Let me explain other people's perspective. Anand is a lawful "resident alien". He endured long process of showing that his residence is of benefit to the USA (he's Indian so we know his GC is one of several variants of "employment based" Maybe even "national interest".) He pays taxes. He wants to marry and bring his wife to his home (for wich he pays property tax). And some "civil servant" says he can't, because he's not citizen but merely GC holder. Bummer.
But thank's God there's "loopholes".

P. S. I don't seek any "fairness" in this matters. I know U. S. visa is a "privilege", that I'm legally second rate and that it is probably inevitable as the world is imperfect. I don't complain, and actually am quite happy here (unlike my wife on F-2). But don't blaim lawful aliens for SS faults. It's just stupid.

 

No one is blaming aliens. Generally, you guys are just trying to go for a better way of life. It's our scum sucking money raking politicians at fault...and the likes of those that pay them off.

 

No, you don't. You just want our money to pay for your retirement and inability to deal with your own government. 'Coz, you know, you are an American!

 

And what do you want? To come here, become a citizen, and be a part of it all? You mean you don't want American money? You expect me to believe that you want to be here just to help Americans out of the goodness of your heart?

What are you here for?

 

What on Earth is any of this any business of yours? Do yo have any sense of privacy?

I want MY money. I work for it. I don't want to pay for something I don't get. Get it?

 

You get the privilege of coming here.

We let you work here. We let you make soem money here. Why not pay a bit extra for the privileges you get that you cannot get back in your home?

 

If one takes the view that undergraduate university education exists merely to provide job qualifications and a future credential, sure, a "linguistics major" will never need higher math courses. As it turns out, however, computational linguistics (studied at the graduate level more likely) does benefit from a passing knowledge of both.

How is Joe Student or Jane Brightone to know in advance what he or she will "need" to pursue such studies? Computational linguistics (just as an example) requires a fair knowledge of both languages and maths. Combinatorial computer science requires math, but a liberal education doesn't hurt either, since the application combinatorics might find itself in the study of RNA pseudoknot sequences or in something more mundane.

And so, I think a broad exposure serves the students more than an early narrow focus might.

 

You WHAT?

Answer this. My team of programmers working on one research project is currently 100% international. We're all F-1s. Locals are actually CHEAPER for the PI to hire (because of in-state rate for tuition vaiwers). Why are we all international, then?

 

That's right. The U.S. LETS you work here. As you stated previously, it is a privilege for you to do so.

Why is your team international then? Likely because F-1s don't pay FICA taxes. Chances are you might not be receiving other benefits through the employer either. You are cheaper than your American counterparts. FICA is a huge tax here in this country.

The F-1 program is so abused it is incredible. Many continue to stay here on an F-1, even after school...as long as they do not commit unlawful presence. Then, the other loophole into the F-1 is the Optional Practical Training Visa. I am seeing workers here now, doing system engineering jobs, even AFTER they are long out of full-time school. Still...FICA is not paid...which makes it darn cheap for an employer.

Typically, visa holders don't often get benefits that Americans have come to basically expect in a job...such as retirement programs(which many companies contribute much to). This alone makes it much cheaper to go with a visa holder...even if all other things were equal.

Let's say that you earn 32/hr and your American counterpart earns 65K/yr. You actually earn more than him(with no FICA EVEN). However, 65K/year with a matching 401k program actually makes you the cheaper deal if a company gives up to 50 cents on the dollar in a 6% deal for that 401K program. From what I see, many visa holders have to buy their own insurance...which then makes the visa holder an even more sweet deal for the employer. The employer could then afford to even jack up the rate for the visa holder and still have a cheaper employee over the 65K/year American worker.

One thing is that if the U.S. continues to use these visa holders in regular employment then the Americans will likely not gain the skills necessary to compete in the future world. Companies WON'T be able to hire Americans because they won't have any skills. They won't have skills if they continually get undercut on price in the employment game. Thus, the dreams of many foreign nationals will be realized.

 

We're all students working part-time, with a paycheck of right around $500 biweekly. Any taxes on this are easily offset by the difference it the cost of tuition waivers.

...wich is illegal. So, no loophole. Lax enforcement perhaps.

Yeah, long after. OPT is not a visa and it lasts 12 months tops.

I have a suspicion that it's not true for H1-bs.

Oh, please. The only reason we're so competitive is that americans have weird fear for math. My department is like 70% indian. Sciences depend on foreign students and postdocs, whether you like it or not.
Any immigrant knows that once you got GC, your employment prospects become better. You have no disadvantage over internationals, other than self-inflicted.

 

Stan,

This is just pure baloney and hardly worthy of a response. But here it is nonetheless...

You have been reading too many of the ITAA claims out there. It's the industry lobbyists who are selling this garbage. As for software, how much math does a software programmer use? Hmm. I can take a history major and show them how to code a VB app.

From Norm Matloff...
"In TIMSS, at the eighth-grade level among the 41 nations, 32 nations statistically outscored Louisiana in mathematics. But only six nations in the world beat Iowa and Nebraska in mathematics. In science, 26 nations outperformed Mississsippi, but only one nation, Singapore, scored above Colorado, Connecticut, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oregon, Utah, Vermont, Wisconsin and Wyoming. "

That doesn't sound like we are afraid of math.

 

No I actually don't. Anyways, software pro "shortage" is basically over, H1 quota is back to 60000 and largely filled by nurses.

I took "Logic" class in COMPUTER SCIENCE graduate program. Guys, you fear math. I don't know why.

BTW, another reason you depend on internationals in science so much is that you've made science such a lousy carreer choice for locals. Five years grad school, four or more years postdoc - it just isn't worth it for most. Your best and brightest go (wisely) to med school.

 

What shortages?

There was a shortage of programmers willing to work for less than 35K/yr. Now, there is a shortage of nurses willing to work for 10/hr.

Nursing has often gone in big cycles. However, if there really was a nursing shortage then hospitals would not likely be cutting nursing staff and consolidating.

 

I was offered 55k. By the staffing company wich planned to sell me for higher hourly rate. Practically right out of college. I did have MCSD though.

It didn't work out though: "shortage" ended.

Now I am on F-1 and I know that it's notoriously hard to "abuse" it. Either you are a student or you are not. You can only work 20hr on campus. OPT is 12 months after graduating, and then you either get H1 or leave. Very straightforward stuff, really.

 

Where on earth does a nurse only earn $10/hr? I work in one of the lower paying states, yet earn far more than $10/hr as a new graduate. Not to mention weekend and shift differentials. Heck, there are nurses earning over $100K by playing their cards right: work as a staff nurse at one hospital for the benefits and work prn at another hospital for triple the pay. You may be thinking of hospital cutbacks which includes termination of "non-essential" staff. Nurses are most definitely "essential" staff and are not part of the groups being let go as a money-saving function.

Pretty good deal if you ask me.

 

To the contrary - I believe that educational instutitons need to be held accountable. The recent rise in educational costs reflects a lack of countervailing market force and poor management on the part of higher education.

I suspect we'll see big changes in educaiton and health care soon. Continued inflation can't continue endlessly.

I find this article very interesting. I see a parallel in programs aimed at mid-career adults. Many of these folks get tuition reimbursement. Schools that focus on these marekts tend to set their tuition at the highest level they can and live within employer's reimbursement limits.

Regards - Andy