KWU and programs

Re: KWU

Depends on your definition of a "diploma mill." If operating with a state license is all you need, then no. But if your definition includes a school that is not accredited, claimed bogus accreditation for years, "moved" its license several times from state-to-state (without actually moving), isn't licensed to award degrees in its home state, doesn't publish its curricular requirements for the bachelor's degree, awards bachelor's degrees on the basis of 5-9 courses (plus a paper), awards significant amounts of "life experience" credit--without an actual evaluation--even at the graduate level, "courses" that consist of a book and a test, awards doctoral degrees in less than a year, and issues degrees that have no academic meaning, then the term "diploma mill" might come to mind.

So, what's your definition?

 

Re: Re: KWU

In my own research, I submitted a one and a half page resume to KW as a part of the application process. While I did not lie, I did purposefully make the content vague and short of substance. There is no way anyone could have reasonably inferred that I actually had knowledge equivalent to legitimate Masters level classes from what I provided. I was told, in addition to this, to go online and say I went to 8-10 conferences. It didn't matter what they were, no verification of sessions attended, no need for verifying CEU's.

I was told the "review committee" would assess and indicate what my "experience" was worth. Some days later I get the call that tells me I have all the experience necessary to avoid taking six Masters courses and only needed to take four to get my E-MBA. I could name whichever six waived courses I wanted to appear on my transcripts.

These are the facts. Read the hearing transcripts. The lack of credibility taints even the ink that is used to print the diplomas they issue.

 

Re: Re: Re: KWU

Testimony of Lieutenant Commander Gelzer

Statement of Andrew Coulombe

Hearing Webcast

 

It's been about 20 years, but I remember the University of Maryland gave me a preliminary evaluation, then let me enroll for the first couple courses based on that evaluation. Those courses were those that the university and I knew would not duplicate prior learning. Later when they had the transcripts they performed an official evaluation and made minor adustments. Some of my credentials were not verified (such as military schools and industrial training courses) but were accepted based the documentation I presented to the university (such as DD214). The process was not different than the process used by KWU.

 

Re: Re: KWU

I am really new to this whole process as I have just been appointed by my company to check into "degree mills", non-accredited universities, fake colleges, etc. as we have had some recent experience with applicant's claiming they have Bachelor and Master's Degrees from the aforementioned places. Therefore, I am not sure I have a good definition of "diploma mill". Your explanation above is very helpful, thank you for that. I'm sorry if I seem naive to this whole idea, but I guess I am. I look forward to learning more from people like you and the others in this forum who seem to already know what I am trying to learn about these issues.

 

The best place to start is one of the books by John Bear. A local library should have a copy. He has postings on this site that will direct you to the titles.

 

I find this difficult to believe. In the Senate hearings on diploma mills, the ex-employee "admissions officer" of KWU testified that he never heard of anyone being rejected by the admissions committee at KWU. What do you suppose that statement means? Do you believe that the University of Maryland has NEVER rejected an applicant?

What about the reports that KWU admitted students into their Ph.D. programs who had no legitimate college degrees? Do you suppose that they were lying just to make KWU look bad? If that happened at the University of Maryland don't you think that those students would need to take many more classes than 5-7?

What about the testimony and the posts indicating that attending conferences and seminars can't even be verified yet KWU gives credit for it? Do you think that's the way it works at the University of Maryland?

 

Re: Re: Re: KWU

Did you ever try a google search?

Index pages for the senate investigation can be found (here and here

 

Bill I think what he was trying to say is that there is such a thing as preliminary evaluation that is not as rigorous as final evaluation.

This saves time and money.

I'm sure he didn't say that U of M later in the process didn't verify person’s credentials.

I had this year ego with DETC accredited university. They looked at my copy of transcript for preliminary acceptance.
But when it came to final admittance they requested a sealed transcript sent directly from the university.

U o P on line in their process of hiring part time instructors accept initially emailed Jpg of my credentials.
Later in the process they requested official transcript sent to them.

This can save time and money because the applicant get an estimated acceptance, this is mach faster then making all the work only to find out that the person is not qualified or will need make up classes etc.

Some academic advisors will run the unofficial copy by the Dean and will get a verbal input.
Then this advisor will email or write the initial acceptance criteria are.

Business is business and commissions are part of their pay.

Learner

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: KWU

The links to the testimonies were posted above.

 

thank you

I got the links and read them, thank you - they were exactly what I needed.

I don't know if anyone has seen this article from the beginning of this month or if it would interest anyone, but I found some helpful links on it so I thought I would share. It's from the Federal Trade Commission regarding diploma mills.

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2005/02/diplomamills.htm

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: KWU

I know. I only realised found out after the time limit expired, although I think one can find a bit more information from the contents pages (although not necessarily witness statements)

 

Re: KWU

Be careful with your facts. I can't imagine anyone having a problem with schools charging by the year. However, what was stated (and I would know since it was me that stated it) was the charging for the degree.

There is no credible evidence that Madison is doing anything to "turn things around." That ship has sailed. If they are serious, they shoud re-name the school and go from there. Why? Well, we could start with the 120 hits on Google when you type in "Madison University" and "Degree Mill." That's probably enough reasons.



Tom Nixon

 

Re: Re: KWU

I better stay away from Oxford University then - it gives 158

(Although strangely enough, the second time I tried the search, it only gave me 77. Seems google cannot make up its mind.)

 

Re: Re: Re: KWU

The difference: No one is going to confuse Oxford University with a degree mill. For some folks, the jury is still out on MU, and for others, the jury has already rendered a verdict.

However, one problem with using Oxford university in your example is that there have been Oxfords that were degree mills. Bears' Guide (15th ed.) lists four, I believe. And keep in mind that to be listed as a degree mill in a Bears' Guide means that there is not a shadow of a doubt. If there is, it's not in that chapter.


Tom Nixon

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: KWU

I know. It was only tongue in cheek.

There was actually a chap that changed his name by deed poll to Oxford University (The names University, Oxford University...) and tried to award degrees. The people who had them could legitimately claim they were awarded by "Oxford University" (or at least that was the intent). Neither the courts, nor The Chancellor, Masters and Scholars of the University of Oxford looked very kindly on the matter.

 

Madison University

Greetings Tom N

I differ with you in your statements about Madsion University. I have talked with the administration at length, asked many many specific questions and got answers straight from the hip. No BS or around the bushes from them like I have from several other school administrators I have interviewed. I have had some to hang up on me, give me nonsensical answers, meaningless answers, etc.

Have you talked with any of the graduates of that school or talked with any of the administrators? If you have, please post your assessment of the facts on this discussion board.

I was very candid in my interview questions and topics of fact finding about the WAUC, awarding credits for experiential learning, course content, faculty credentials, etc. I left no stone unturned or turned over 99% of them. This is a fairly young school and has been in the same place since its establishment. It is straight forward in its endeavors and provides students with very concise information about their accreditation status, what is regional accreditation, national accreditation and how they are currently accredited. I received the documents from the school and the documents are what I call well Informed Consent for consumers.

Why should the school change its name? There are several schools out there with name the Madison associated with them. Hamilton has changed its name several times but is still a fraudulent school when it comes to providing academics.

I wish you well with your research on new dl programs and your new book. If you are interested, UNC - Chapel Hill and East Carolina University located in NC are adding and have recently add several new DL programs. Go to the home pages for each and search the DL education links.

Hope there are no hard feelings. None here.

Mike

 

I was curious, why isn't Kennedy Western University's telephone number or email address listed on their website. This is just a little suspicious.

 

I believe that email addresses and phone numbers are available. I've contacted them in the past that way. I looked real quick and didn't find this information right off but I believe that it is there if you only look a little harder.