KW university

I must say that for some fields the RA degree wouldn't make too much of a difference for job possibilities. Let's take the example of a website designer, you might have a RA degree but prospect employers would look more at your skills rather than the accreditation of the school so if some non-RA school can give you the skills for less price, then the school might be worth considering. However, in the case of your wife's boss, KW is a very poor option cause most likely she won't get any pay increase derived from the KW doctorate, so she will be loosing time and money. The non-RA route can be an option for certain fields and certain cases, but you have to be sure that this is the case for you.

If your wife's boss doesn't have the money for a RA school, she could get a legitimate degree from a SA school for few thousand and she could get the school to pay her at the doctorate level once graduated since the degree can be defended as an accredited degree from a foreign institution.

KW makes money out of the ignorance of people, if you open your eyes, you have a world of possibilities to get the education you want for less and without sacrificing quality.

 

For some fields and some situations I must totally agree. Even then it should be from the best Non RA school possible, and never passed off as comparable to a RA degree. Now that requires integrity of both the institution to be open and honest about their lack of accreditation and why...even if it cost them money...and the student to admit that their degree is from a non RA institution.

My challenge has been to any potential employer who was not satisfied with my non RA degrees (if I deny them I lie) to pay for my education and I would bring them no less than a 4.0. No one has taken me up on it and to my knowledge I have never been turned down because of them. But then again I put it on the table first and let them know why I did not go to an RA institution. Any place or position that I know requires a RA degree I simply do not apply for...no matter how much experience I may have. I have never applied to teach at a RA college, although I have been asked several times, but I have volunteered my time at brick and mortar non RA schools. In my field and culture there are many non RA schools, both brick and mortar, mom and pop, and online. It is something we deal with the best we can, but do not get dogmatic over, except for online schooling.

To many that is not considered going to school but just an "Internet degree" regardless if it is acredited or not. Argue about it's legitmacy all you want, and it still will not convince them any different. To those with those opinions, a degree from the big three RA assessment colleges still are not worth anything.So then you do the same thing you would do with a non RA degree. Shut your mouth, do the work, and let that speak for itself.

Concerning my wife's boss, I do not even think it is a money thing at all...it is insecurity...both personal and professional. She is just barely hanging on to her position as is...all those who work under her have their RA Bachelor's and Master's degrees and are just as competant to run the department as she is. She feels that having this 3rd degree will set her apart from the others and keep her in her position. She is one that falls into my personal category of having a RA degree and still not knowing nothing, or being unable to implement and exhibit what they have learned. However everybody in the department now all know the true standing of KW now having visited DegreeInfo for themselves. (I wonder who told them ...hey I was asked) If she tries to use the degree on them, I am sure that it will be reported at that time.

Especially since my wife is holding off enrolling for her doctorate from NC State so I can get my RA degrees for our future move to Iowa.

 

Terrific post!

Let me warp the thread slightly. You mentioned the best non-RA school possible. Bill mentioned several special-purpose CA schools on another thread as real high flyers.
Has anyone any votes for "best non-RA school"?

 

flipkid,

Your argument seems to be as follows:

1. I checked out one RA program.

2. It was expensive.

3. It only offered a certificate.

Conclusion: Non-RA schools are a better deal.

My argument:

1. I read Bear's Guide to Distance Learning.

2. I read the chapter on aceditation.

3. Researched other sources on accreditation.

4. Researched at least twenty-five RA schools.

Conclusion: RA is more respected and useful.
There was a program I was interested in, and was within my budget.

 

Thank you for your assessment. However it is slightly off. I posted the true story of a RA college in Virginia that is trying to deal with losing money to DL institutions of all kinds, as well as other brick and mortar unacredited schools in their area. They instituted the certificate program to stem the bleeding, but those who attended found out it still was not accepted in place of a degree.This is what some of those who will not go to that particular RA school say. It must be said that this is only dealing with the field of theology/divinity/ministry.

My personal story is posted on other threads here and at the now closed dd.net. I just personally know too many people who do not fall into the strict categories of fraud and other deceitful manipulations. However since I feel you are sincere in your post, in a nuthsell...

1.) Family was too broke to save money for college.
2.) On my own working since 15 to take care of myself
3.) Accepted at RA school on provisional basis.
4.) Hit by car in Sophmore year. Guy had no insurance...dropped out to pay the hospital bills.
5.) Work
6) Accepted call to ministry in 1987
7.) Reseached 3 schools in my area. All three were not acredited in their religion/ministry areas at that time. Others were of different culture and were rejected.
8.) Went to unacredited school because of cost and convienece at that time. Plans were to transfer.
9.) Lost job.
10) Stayed in school because I learned lesson of loyalty..after I found out they never were going to pursue acreditation.
11.) Since I never tried to hide the nature of the degrees...it was no personal problem o me. However the further i have gone along, the more others have problems with it. Since my wife and i have decided to relocate in a few years, it has only now become necessary to pursue a RA.
11.)Have tried since that time to get my RA but it has been about not having the money to finish paying off debt to first RA school to get transcripts. Money was shifted to pay the hosptial bills. Everytime I have the money...something else happens...latest one this past month...mother in law had surgery...had to go to New Orleans for that...
12.) I have been provisioanlly accepted at a couple of RA schools but I can not enroll without that transcript. That is my hold up and that will take money. Once that is paid, I will enroll at Hampton University for the BA in Religious Studies.

Even though my degrees are not acredited, I make more than my wife with both her degrees are from RA schools (Xavier and University of Northern Iowa) Not much more, but more.

Unfortunatley within the context of my culture even RA acredited DL schools are seen as being shams. They are not accepted by quite a few people if they are told they did the degree online.
That is another perception problem. Secondly theological schools frrom other cultures are rejected as not being relevant for our culture...sorry but that was the nicest way to say that.

Even within RA schools...is Harvard better respected than Kent State? Princeton better than Louisburg College? University of Miami better than Florida Memorial? Acreditation may say no, but perception and marketing say yes.

 

Well done. Having worked in "cultures" not my own (ancestry notwithstanding) for most of my so-called career (African-American and German-American), cultural fluency is a big part of making your education--wherever you got it--an asset and not a badge of insurmountable "difference".
All fluency is local.
My RA degrees count for less in my parishioners' eyes than my non-credit year at our denomination's non-accredited seminary, and that not for the theological information I gained or the professional ability fostered (went in with both, left with both), but for the cultural fluency I picked up.

 

Tis is true. My parishioner's are exactly the same and have been that way in all three of my ministerial stations.

Thanks.

 

flipkid,

I can understand the many problems you have had in life. But this makes no point regarding the seemingly endless debate this forum has on unaccredited degrees.

I find the following interesting:

1) You stayed at a non-RA school out of loyalty, even though you learned that they had no intention of persuing accreditation. Loyalty to what? You were willing to spend your limited funds on a non-RA degree out of honor?

2) In your "culture" non-RA is more acceptable. Maybe so. But to the rest of us 290,000,000 people in the "American Culture" non-RA is not acceptable. If you want to follow the standards of a counter-culture, which is what you seem to be describing, it may work out for you as long as you do not stray outside the protective womb of that closed system of ideas.

3)After describing the benifits of a non-RA degree, you write: "...it has only now become nessary to persue a RA." Which is the result that always happens with non-RA degrees.

There are many members of this forum that respond to threads such as yours with anger and disgust. It is not because they want to pick on you, but because:

1) It's just plain sad to see people toil and spend their hard earned cash for worthless degrees. There is nothing on this forum that will change your mind. But when someone who is not experienced in distance learning reads threads that promote schools like KW, some of us feel we should respond with atleast a differing viewpoint.

2)Non-RA degrees, such as your's, are not fair to students, such as me, who are attempting to complete their degrees, or even more so, students who have completed degrees at RA schools. Your comment that RA schools differ in quality is correct. I attended CSU Dominguez Hills as a traditional student, and am trying to complete degree through Eastern Oregon University. Neither are anywhere close to the reputation of Harvard. But, when I finished I can use this degree in any of the fifty states, and most foreign countries. The fact that a nonRA degree cannot be used this way is a comment on quality. Is it fair for someone to posess a BA, when they did not have to work at even the most minimal accepted standards?

 

There is no reason at all to think that K-WU will ever become accredited, and many reasons to believe they never will.

KW-U operated for years under California's "Authorized" category, section 94310(c). In this category, schools were not subject to evaluation or review; they filled out their applications, declared their intentions and assets, and operated without scrutiny, indefinitely. Schools were not required to "upgrade" their programs to "Approved" status, section 94310(b). In 1989, the state eliminated the Authorized category, implemented institutional approval, and required all unaccredited schools in the state to become Approved. It is my opinion that, in doing so, they lowered the bar to Approved status, and several schools that had zero Approved programs in the past were able to get their institutions Approved. But many more "left" the state, "re-locating" in other, less-scrutinizing, states. I say "left" because most didn't actually leave. They continue(d) to operate from California. Golden State went to Hawaii, Century went to New Mexico, and K-WU--along with a few others--"re-located" in South Dakota, which had no laws regulating unaccredited universities.

When South Dakota became alarmed at the number of unaccredited schools operating from there, it tighted up. So K-WU, still running from California, moved its license to Wyoming which, like South Dakota, had no means of regulating such schools. Wyoming continues to license K-WU, but makes it clear that such licensure is not to be construed as state approval. Thus, KW-U continues to operate in an unregulated environment. Very convenient.

Oh, and along the way, K-WU was enjoined from offering its programs and degrees to California residents.

Oh, and it is illegal to use K-WU degrees in Oregon.

K-WU not only has shown no interest in legitimate accreditation, it has avoided any form of oversight for more than 20 years. The hurdles and difficulties in the accreditation process are real, yet irrelevant. They aren't the reason K-WU isn't accredited. K-WU is the reason K-WU isn't accredited.

Recently, a poster went to the K-WU-run discussion board, which was then available to the public. He logged on as himself and wrote a few of these things. Not opinions or judgments, just the observable facts. His account was promptly terminated. He created several new accounts, only to see them terminated each time. Finally, the board was taken private, which it should have been all along for its lack of tolerance of the truth. That poster was me.

In a recent survey of employers I conducted, I found that degrees from K-WU were as acceptable to employers as degrees from Capella, Heriot-Watt, and Western States Universities, all of which are properly accredited/recognized. Unfortunately, degrees from our favorite degree mill, Columbia State University, were even more acceptable! That ought to tell you something about employers. But when employers found out about the nature of state licensure (compared to recognized accreditation), the acceptability of such degrees dropped significantly.

If I know these things, I'm sure the management of K-WU does, because they've been operating in this multi-million-dollar niche for a long time, apparently with great success. But none of that has anything to do with the academic viability of the school or its degrees.

 

Rich, I don't think Kennedy-Western ever claimed to be in South Dakota.

They moved their "campus" address from California to Idaho, and then to Hawaii, and now to Wyoming (where, according to the article on them in the Chronicle of Higher Education, the "campus" consists of two clerks working in a basement office).

 

Uh oh...

 

Ooops. I meant "Idaho." Just got my wires crossed. But I certainly did not know they were (briefly?) in Hawaii. I gotta look stuff up before I go on one of my rants. It's hard to keep up with the state-to-state "moves."

 

Why did Wyoming license Kennedy Western University??
Thank you.

Working,
CBM, MBA, BS, BA, AAS, AAS, AA

 

As I thought that Rich explained, Wyoming doesn't have the law that is needed to prevent this degree mill from continuing to operate and taking people's money from Wyoming. They have moved from state to state to avoid cleaning up their degree mill ways. Why do you think they have moved from state to state? It seems simple to me. They are simply avoiding prosecution for being a degree mill. They are avoiding being closed down for operating a bogus school. It is a scam. It is a con. etc. etc.

 

I don't believe that Wyoming evaluates the programs offered.

You pays yer money and you gets yer license.