Islamic Online University

I first learned of it 50-odd years ago, reading about the Blues - an almost life-long obsession of mine. I think I may have seen it first in Sam Charters' book, The Country Blues. I bought that when I was about 19, IIRC. Today, you can find it all over. Maybe start here, there are a couple of manuscript pictures:https://www.islamreligion.com/articles/10461/muslim-roots-of-american-slaves-part-2/

If you simply Google "plantation records in Arabic" you'll be led to a lot of relevant writing and film listings, e.g.

http://princeamongslaves.org/module/muslimsinus.html
http://www.drake.edu/media/departmentsoffices/dussj/2013-2011documents/IslamThompson.pdf

Why deprive you of the fun? For the rest, I'll let your fingers do the walking! :smile:

J.

 

Hey, I'm one. Officially - still - after all these years. Bet you didn't know that. :smile:

J.

 

I did not, although I DID assume that they at least used Arabic numbers!

 

The first links to an Islamic proselytizing site, the second to nothing much and the third to a crazy quilt of 'the Americas,' Brazil, 'the Americas,' Hispaniola, 'the Americas,' Barbados, 'the Americas,' Virginia... And that third argues against your contention, anyway.

 

Have it your way.

(1) I saw nothing proselytizing about the first site. I did, however find it quite interesting.
(2) I'm repeating - and perhaps I shouldn't - info I read 50 years ago. I didn't make this up. If it wasn't from Sam Charters, it may have been Paul Oliver or Leroi Jones / Amiri Baraka. I still have all those books from 50 years ago, but they're packed, right now.
(3) I've never seen the writings - nor did I claim to. I took the info in good faith.

Go ahead and prove me wrong - you haven't yet. If you do, you'll have done a service. Otherwise...

J.

 

Prove you wrong? Good grief.

 

Yes. Please do. You're calling me out - so back it up.

What's at issue here is who, if anyone, kept plantation records in Arabic and where those records - if they exist - can be seen today. As of right now, I don't have that answer. We DO know, from the sources provided, that there were indeed Arabic-literate African Muslims who were slaves in what is now the U.S. and other parts of the New World. We have some of their names from several sources and some images of Arabic writings attributed to them are available - including some in the sources cited. Unfortunately, the documents are not Plantation records - but I'm not giving up on those yet. Are you?

J.

 

Other parts of the New World were not your contention. The onus of proof is on you.

 

Indeed they weren't. Still aren't. Fact remains: there were known to be Arabic-literate Muslim slaves in what's now the US. We have some names. No - I have no proof any such people kept plantation records. But they were there. A quote: "Of the estimated 30,000 Muslim slaves who arrived in North America between 1711 and 1870, only seven attracted enough attention from contemporary white-society and modern-day historians to present fuller understandings of their lives."

From here: https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/38056

Among the author's contentions is that slaveowners gave elite Muslim slaves authority over other slaves. I have no proof yet, but it's not a great leap to the suggestion I read 50 years ago, that some got to keep records. I'll work on it. And there's this - a less-academic source, but... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3ekxlg/were_there_muslims_among_american_slaves/ As I said before, they were here. We know a few names. Many (most?) could read/write Arabic - that's a religious requirement. then and now. There's proof enough of that. The jury is out on whether they kept plantation records - they were certainly capable and some had authority over others.

The writing of plantation records is the only unresolved contention here. Not the presence or (Arabic) literacy of Muslim slaves in North America. Those are slam-dunks. And if I can't resolve it in the very near-term, I'll say so.

J.

 

This is revisionist or inventive history, something your Amiri Baraka never shied from.

 

Interesting debate. It looks like Islam was already in Western Africa before the slave trade. There is no doubt that it was already in Northern and Eastern Africa.

 

I was so excited to see that this thread had revived that I logged back in. I assumed that it must be some anonymous shill trying to tell us about how amazing this school is and how you'd have to be a fool to think otherwise.

Then I come in here and find it's just a bunch of regulars discussing history.

I'm not gonna lie. I'm a little disappointed...

 

no message!

 

Does this have anything to do with the Barbary Wars?

 

I don't think that Stephen Decatur will be awarded a posthumous honorary degree anytime soon.

 

That Congressional Gold Medal, tho...

 

Some of it may well be, but far from all. Decimon, you do win the match, however. I have absolutely no proof to offer about the plantation records. I read about this fifty years ago, believed it without verification and now, to my chagrin, have passed it on - and I can find no basis in fact for it.

I am sorry if I have misled anyone, about the plantation records. Yes, Arabic-literate Muslim slaves were present in fair numbers in the US - that doesn't appear to be in dispute. And some small amount of their Arabic writing survives, including this, in the Smithsonian Institute :https://nmaahc.si.edu/explore/stories/collection/african-muslims-early-america

However, much I would like to find it, I cannot point to evidence of any plantation records kept by Arabic-literate slaves. Again, I am sorry - but for that statement alone.

J.

 

AHEM! Not conclusive proof -indeed not - but ... from the Smithsonian site I referenced, above:

"So enslaved Muslims used jobs such as bookkeepers, personal servants, and coachmen to gain physical mobility, learn American business practices, and access information normally only shared within white society. Yarrow Mamout of Georgetown..." Quite a story - a very successful man.

We have bookkeepers. We may get to plantation records yet - or not. Or is the Smithsonian revisionist, too?

J.

 

"In at least one case, a slave kept his master's plantation records in Arabic." From:

Servants of Allah: African Muslims Enslaved in the Americas Sylviane A. Diouf New York: New York University Press, 1998

The quote refers non-specifically to the growing pile of documents long in attics, etc - unearthed in late 20th C. Wish there was more. We'll see.

J.

 

I see internet forums as a few people posting and many reading. I've nothing here to win or lose but do have an opportunity to present a view that readers can consider or not, at their pleasure.