Is this degree actually useful?

The CIA has a job posting specifically asking for a leadership degree for their leadership analyst opening, but that's the only one I've seen. One of my professors has a PhD in Leadership. I, personally, would not get a degree in leadership or critical and creative thinking. If I wanted a philosophy or humanities degree, I would just get a philosophy or humanities degree. The UMass program is nowhere near a replacement for an education or psychology degree. A master's in psychology is often required for counseling jobs. This degree doesn't even come close to preparing one for counseling. This degree program somehow manages to be narrowly focused and all over the place at the same time.

 

I don't know why I'm still being moderated several posts and several days later, but I need to clarify my first post. Even for a non-licensure job, the psychology degree prepares a person for a human/social services job because it focuses on human behavior, the UMass degree does not. One course in cognitive psychology doesn't cut it. If I were hiring for a job opening of principal for a gifted and talented school, I would want a person who knows how to manage a school. The principal is not going to be designing curriculum or teaching in the classroom. I don't even know how the principal would even be qualified to design curriculum for gifted courses in English, science, social studies, etc. This requires subject matter experts. A person with this UMass degree is not qualified to teach cognitive psychology. It is a humanities degree. Cognitive psychology is a behavioral science.

Human/social services and counseling are the fairly common jobs for those who hold graduate degrees in psychology. For graduate degree holders in education, their common jobs are in educational administration and other leadership positions in education. I know some schools will not pay more for a graduate degree unless it's in education or in the subject that the teacher is teaching. On the surface, the UMass degree sounds okay for marketing until you look at the actual curriculum. I'd much rather hire a marketing, sociology, or psychology major. This degree does not teach you enough about human behavior and how to make someone buy a product. It's more introspective like a philosophy program.

 

Here's the scoop on that: http://www.degreeinfo.com/general-distance-learning-discussions/35100-new-users-ask-where-did-my-posts-go.html

 

Interesting! TY.

I agree.

But a master's in experimental psychology would be pretty distant from preparing one for counseling too – yet it would represent a legitimate part of psychology, and the experimental degree would more closely match the subject content of some (some) undergraduate psychology courses that are widely taught.

I'm just saying the same can be true of the study of critical and creative thinking.

The studies of Critical Thinking (CRCRTH 601 and others in MA in CCT) and Creative Thinking (CRCRTH 602 and others), done the right way, are absolutely questions of cognitive psychology and behavioral science. See for instance Critical Thinking in Psychology (Sternberg, Roediger, & Halpern, eds., 2007, Cambridge University Press) and the Cambridge Handbook of Creativity (Sternberg & Kaufman, eds., 2012)

Electives in the MA in CCT like CRCRTH 650 Mathematical Thinking, CRCRTH 655 Metacognition, and CRCRTH 670 Thinking, Learning, and Computers have obvious and very strong nexus to cognitive psychology. Some of the other electives, yes, are more applied educationy (several are very educationy), or interdisciplinary. In their choice of electives students can shape the focus of their degree; some will be more cogntivey, some more educationy, maybe some more individual-thinking-skillsy and introspective. (And then there's the Science in a Changing World track.)

Of course. In my example, each candidate had a post-master's principal qualification. I meant that they both had strong, if entry-level, training in running a school.

I agree that this MA in CCT would do little or nothing to qualify a student as a counselor or paracounselor. I disagree that the study of CCT isn't part of the study of "human behavior!" Done right this is entirely part of psychology and behavioral science.

I agree with everyone that the subjects of critical and creative thinking can be approached like a Six Thinking Hats or a Whack on the Side of the Head workshop. Here are some tips to think creatively and critically yourself! Here are some catchphrases! Enjoy the refreshments.

But most of this thread seems be built on the assumption that this is pretty well how a master's program in Critical and Creative Thinking must be approaching them too. And this isn't necessarily so, and far from it. There's real scholarship to these subjects that is of psychology and behavioral science.

 

Admittedly, the fact that a roomful of people generally so open-minded! about higher education have SUCH a lousy impression of "Creative and Critical Thinking" as a title, that when they hear that the respected UMass Boston is offering a master's in it, the discussion doesn't go to the interesting scholarship such a program could work with, but to how it's obviously a great big personal development seminar about how to think creatively and critically yourself ("skills"), stretched out to form a fluffy degree with no obvious "use," and not even a subject from "behavioral science…"

suggests that yeah, the title might be too new.

If they had thrown an Interdisciplinary Studies, Education, etc., into the title, I think there'd be no heat here whatsoever.

 

:shrug: it's just recognizing the reality of the world we live in and the way potential employers think. The way many employers view things and the concept of common sense are often two very different things.

But if you think a degree like that isn't going to cause you to run into some roadblocks in terms of potential employers not understanding how it would fit, then make you sure leave some cookies out for Santa tonight :smirk:

 

Experimental psychology is best taken to the doctoral level because it is a research degree. It is much more scientific than critical thinking and even most of the psychology subfields.

These kinds of courses are common in philosophy programs. You might see them a little bit in educational programs. This Critical and Creative Thinking program teaches the student how to think critically and be creative. This is closely related to philosophy, which makes it a humanities degree. The behavioral sciences study how the brain operates; how environmental, social and biological factors affect behavior; and why people interact in a certain way. They focus on how people behave in general. They do not focus on the individual student who is in the program. There are really only three behavioral sciences: psychology, sociology, and anthropology. Neuroscience is a cross between behavioral science and biology. Science in a changing world sounds very much like an ethics or philosophy of science course. The scientific and political change course involves some history and politics. Those are not behavioral sciences.

Someone gave a good argument that mathematics is more humanities than science. I think it's a cross between the two. The history of mathematics is rooted in philosophy/logic. I know it's Wikipedia, but it says that cognitive psychology rejects introspection, which is used in Freudian psychology. Freudian psychology was not scientific and most of its components are rejected by modern practitioners. The course description of the Metacognition course basically says that it includes introspection. Introspection is rooted in philosophy.

I don't think it's a matter of being closed-minded. This degree is clearly closely related to philosophy except it's focused on one small part of philosophy. Considering that philosophy graduates really have to make their case for various employment opportunities, it's natural for one to assume that one would really have to sell the Critical and Creative Thinking degree. It has the added problem of not being well-known. Until more people have tried to use this degree in the work world and academia, the worth of this degree is just a matter of opinion.

If you want to see the course description of metacognition, it's at the link below.
Course Catalog
Reflective Practice is also an introspection course.

This link has a list of philosophy courses offered by Brandeis. There is one course in Mathematical Logic and another in Philosophy and Cognitive Science.
Philosophy | University Bulletin | Brandeis University

 

In my experience, just from jobs I have had as well as those my family and friends have had, if employers can't get a sense of what your degree is in by reading the title or by hearing a 10-15 second explanation, they aren't interested. If it takes 5 minutes to explain then they move on to the next person. So that's a big reason why I personally see this as a waste of time and money for me.

 

I'm a little surprised by the hostility expressed toward this concept. I've talked about this stuff a lot over the years with my old friend Marlys Mayfield, author of the most popular textbook on critical thinking, Thinking for Yourself (Developmental English - Thinking for Yourself ,9thEdition -9781133311188 - Marlys Mayfield - Cengage Learning). She points out that critical thinking is an absolutely basic skill, as relevant to business as to science as to government. She says there is ample evidence that a great many HR people look very favorably on people who have had critical thinking training, regardless of the nature of the job. Sort of like having basic muscle training work regardless of whether you plan to take up basketball, baseball, football, etc. Now whether having an entire degree in the subject is overdoing it is another matter. Marlys' take on it is that this is a meta-degree for people who will then teach critical thinking to others. (Incidentally it may be good for longevity, too. She has just completed a completely new edition, her 9th, for publication next year, at age 83.)

 

Most leadership degrees have training in communication, conflict resolution, psychology, and many other concepts that are huge benefits to any business environment. I personally enjoy it because it is the practical application of psychology concepts on a daily basis to assist with interacting with others to motivate and manage.

 

That may be the case, but I find the curriculum to be exceptionally narrow and boring. I'm not trying to insult anyone's choice; it's just a personal opinion. I'm sure some people might find my degrees to be boring. I'd much rather have a degree in management (which also includes social science concepts), applied psychology, or industrial/organizational behavior. I would even choose a degree in conflict resolution over a leadership program.

This is the degree one of my professors has. Other than the MBA courses in the combined program, I don't see anything interesting. He's not even teaching leadership, organizational, or business courses. He's teaching national security courses based on his master's degrees and military experience.

Department of Leadership Studies

 

Hey look, Drexel University is in the fray.

Master of Science in Creativity and Innovation
45 quarter hours: 27 core, 12 professional elective, 6 applied-project capstone. Delivered online.

Resources at Drexel include the headquarters of the American Creativity Association, the Drexel/Torrance Center for Creativity and Innovation, and a Creativity Graduate Student Association.

Broadly speaking, there seems to be more of a 'leadership' emphasis in the Drexel program in contrast to the education emphases in the UMass Boston and SUNY Buffalo State College programs introduced upthread.

 

Endowed chair promotes critical thinking at RIT (Thinking Chair) (Colleen Flaherty, Inside Higher Ed, September 16, 2014)