High cost to graduate from one of the Big Three...

Education is a service according to every economic definition that I have ever read. A good could be an online textbook, for example. I agree with standard definitions of the word education: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=dictionary&q=education

With my COSC example, I cannot fathom how they would do $1,600 worth of work for my wife to transfer in 120 credits, for them to verify those credits, and for them to issue a degree. Therefore, it is likely that a portion of that $1,600 will be used to financially support other aspects of the school. Again, I am talking about one narrow group of students: only those that transfer in all 120 hours of credit. No, I am not talking about buy one get one free or a $99.99 special. $1,000 would be much cheaper for a few hours worth of work, though.

It would be nice if you would stop putting words in my mouth and pulling things out of thin air. Your accusations are not based in reality. My words are there to read and reread. I didn't say half of what you claim I did.

 

There is also the possibilty (probably remote) that costs could be reduced or frozen if computerized course evaluations, similar that used by AMU/APUS, are adopted by the big three.
http://www.apus.edu/TransferCredit/equivalents/TED/disclaimer.htm
A lot of schools (CSUDH for example) and courses are not in this database so many courses still need to be researched individually by AMU/APUS.

 

Back to your original question "Any idea why not?"

Here are some ideas:
1. Other DL schools have looked at the option but found it not to be cost effective. Schools do not want to invest/risk time (several years?) and money to create such a program and get it accredited.
2. Faculty at B&M schools object to their school effectively taking away their jobs (could this be why most schools require 30 units in residence?)
3. The accreditation agencies are imposing tougher requirements since the big three were accredited. I note that the big three are all accreddited by the same RA. WGU seems like a likely institution to have followed the big three format but didn't.
4. Several schools offered similar programs in the past, but either disapeared, got absorbed by other schools, or changed their programs. I recall programs in Illinois, Ohio (UWW?), and Florida back in the 70s.


By the way I don't think you were being "piled on, of sorts." You asked a good question and some interesting replies were submitted. A good question usually results in several fast and thoughtful responses.

 

Thank you for answering the questions. I appreciate it. Good info.

 

First the initial statement that you quoted me on about "the piling on of sorts," was a statement that you had used, not me.

I simply wanted you to give some thought as to what you were implying. There's a huge difference from your original post where you indicate that another school could be implemented to charge several hundred dollars. Now, you throw out a $1000 figure as oppose to $1600.00. My question to you then, "Does it really make that much difference to start another school over a $600.00 savings?" Surely you must admit that this is a huge shift from where you originally began.

I think you also think that evaluating credits is a really simple process. There is much that goes into this process. A person must make sure that the transcript(s) come from accredited sources, and that the student has earned an appropriate grade, and then determine how these courses are to be used to fulfill degree requirements. The records need to be inputed and properly placed in a computer system and this is a lengthy process as well.

Not too mention that in addition to the above, there are standards that are in place to audit these records to make sure that everything has been evaluated correctly, and to keep in compliance with the regional accredited bodies that the schools are accredited with.

These schools do give you the option to earn all your undergraduate credits without a residency component. This is unorthodox to traditional schools. The staff and faculty of these schools come from reputable schools and have a special service that they provide to students that otherwise would be left behind.

I think that for you to do this comparison shopping when it comes to getting good quality degrees from Excelsior College, Thomas Edison State College, and Charter Oak State College isn't something that I agree with.

If you look at traditional colleges and universities they charge for student participation fees, graduation fees, lab fees, and other additional fees. Even if a student doesn't participate or use all of the services.

The students that utilize these schools save themselves a considerable amount of money, and if they've accumulated 120 credits and can have them all transferred into one of these three quality schools then they save not only time, but money. They also can say that they actually graduated from a college that is regionally accredited, and gives flexibility.

To me, there's nothing to paying $1600.00 versus having to pay thousands more because of the other hurdles. In my debating with you, I was simply asking for your intentions, and to get you to think about it.

Do you really think that it makes that much difference between $1000 and $1600.00. In your last post, it seems that now you're at least coming to some reality that there's cost associated with all of these services. It is quite different from the several hundred dollar post you originally hinted at.

I just think that you should respect these colleges and the services that they provide. Yes, it's a valid question to ask if you could get this at a reduced price, but to somehow make it look like these colleges are trying to profit. The colleges are there to provide a service, and yes they make some profit from it, but it's more than justified for what the alternative would be with both time and money at the traditional end.

 

I also want to say that I think that it's great that we can chat on here. We don't always agree on things. But, this board, and the people on here strive to do what's right and that's to have a chance for people to give different opinions, and give everyone a chance to decide for themselves what they want to do in a given situation. I'm glad that education has evolved into more flexible alternatives. The important ingredient is for people to get degrees from an accredited source recognized by the U.S. Department of Education. Things cost money, and nothing is ever free. Fees and prices keep going up, but education is an investment and it shouldn't be taken lightly. I always feel that when you make an investment in your future, you can't really put a price tag on it. With education, there's different way to get a degree, but there's a big difference from pursuing your education and shopping at a grocery store.

 

I appreciate the discussion, but I do not appreciate words being put in my mouth. I am not comparing the cost of 60 credit hours worth of exams + $1,600 to get the hours verified + a degree issue to two years of a brick and mortar education. That is not what I said, implied, or ever insinuated. This has nothing to do with brick and mortar schools. This has nothing to do with the Big Three being honest or legitimate.

 

I would like to know where I discussed or brought up about 60 credits and exams. I never said or implied anything of the sort. The issue here is that you make a statement that these schools could charge a substantially lower amount from $1600. In your initial post you state that a new school could start up and charge several hundred dollars. In your most recent post you mention a figure of $1000. Go ahead and review your post and you'll see what I'm referring to. I didn't say anything about taking exams and 60 credits. So you want to talk about coming up with something from thin air you certainly did. I also never put words in your mouth, I was asking you legitimate questions to form when thinking about how muh it costs to operate a school i.e. Excelsior College, Thomas Edison State College, and Charter Oak State College. I didn't say that you didn't feel they were legitimate, but you're certainly implying that there somehow trying to profit from students, and that it seems that the process of evaluating academic credit is somehow easy. If I'm making you upset about my discussions here, it is to make you think about what you've stated, and to get you to reason about what it's really like to operate such a school. There are a lot of costs associated with operating a school, and these schools don't make a regular tuition such as traditional colleges and universities do. When discussing traditional colleges and universities I'm talking about the residency credit obstacle that you've got to face. With these three schools you don't have that. This is especially good for those who have credits from various schools and want to earn a degree with flexibility. My point is that you pay for what you get. Excelsior College, Thomas Edison State College, and Charter Oak State College provide flexibility to students and allow you to earn a degree that is regionally accredited. If a person pays $1600.00 to graduate and has earned so many credits that's better than having to go to another school and do 30 hours more and it would cost far higher than $1600.00, plus it wouldn't be nearly as flexible. My last point would be that you went from stating charging several hundred dollars to $1000.00. So if you take the charge of $1600.00 (what the schools currently charge) and your new charge that you listed in your previous post of ($1000.00), my question to you, "Is it really worth starting another school over saving $600.00?" I feel that these schools more than justify what they charge and for the service that they provide it helps to allow people to earn a degree legitimately and this is an investment in your future.

 

According to whom? As I mentioned, just because TESC is a "distance learning" school, they still have facilities to maintain and payroll to meet.

I think there's about a zero percent chance of that happening, for a couple of reasons;

1) Existing B&M schools would never cut their own throats like that. If you could earn a degree from say, Penn State by transferring 90 community college credits and 30 correspondence/online upper-level credits, why would anyone actually take a class at Penn State?

2) A startup school that achieved RA wouldn't be able to afford it.

If you're that opposed to having your wife pay $1500 for a regionally accredited Bachelor's degree (an incredible bargain), I can only suggest you wait for that mythical school to come along that's going to do it cheaper. I personally believe you're in for an awfully long wait.

 

One of the common topics on this board is "What is my least expensive alternative?" I don't blame anyone for seeking out the best deal they can find. This is why conversation frequently turns to the South African university network, the Indian university network and now, more recently, the Malaysian university network. Perhaps some educational entrepreneur will start up a new university that costs only pennies to have your credits evaluated. When that day comes we'll all have a good time debating the merits of such a school while they move toward some real form of accreditation. Until then it seems silly to argue over things that might or might not happen in the future (by the way, I don't believe it will EVER happen). And so I'd like to ask my final question, paraphrasing that American celebrity, Rodney King, "Why can't Sowak just let it go?"

 

No one really has a problem with someone forming a question about other inexpensive alternatives. The issue that I've got with the poster is that they imply that somehow these schools are profiting off from the fees that are associated. If these schools were unaccredited and didn't serve an intended purpose, then I could see them asking such a question. I also have no problems with them stating that the fees might be too much for their particular budget, but to suggest that these schools are profiting and that they could do the evaluation and all for several hundred dollars seems to be very misleading. The costs associated with operating these schools, Excelsior College, Thomas Edison State College, and Charter Oak State College is quite an undertaking and evaluating college credits isn't an easy process. Plus, there's much more that goes into everything than just issuing credit and handing out a degree. It isn't like education is shopping for an item on a restaurant menu, or going to your local grocery store. I asked some intriguing questions from them, and wanted them to think exactly what they were trying to imply. The schools offer flexibility and have no residency requirements for their undergraduate programs. The $1600.00 fee that they discussed is minimal compared to what it would cost you to do 30 hours of a residency requirement, and not too mention that the program would definately not be as flexible as these three schools. These colleges have been around for quite awhile and they have come to be respected in the academic community. It serves a valuable purpose for people who wouldn't otherwise be able to earn a legitimate degree. The poster went from the cost of several hundred to $1000.00. So my last point with them was is it really worth arguing over $600.00 if a school charges $1600.00 versus $1000.00 that they brought up. I think that the poster could have asked if there were any other least expensive options, but to make a statement that somehow these schools are clearly profiting off from all of this isn't really serving the purpose. Of course, they do make a little profit off from it, but the ends more than justify the means, and it's a valuable degree that one receives that is regionall accredited, and makes people eligible for a degree when they wouldn't have otherwise been able to. If you think that you've got a case or that something is what it seems to be then you need to be able to properly document your arguments and make a compelling case. I just feel that the poster didn't clearly articulate what they were referring too, and also if he and his wife are so against paying the $1600.00, then why would they do it? I also felt that it was important to defend those students that have gone this route and there's nothing wrong with it, and it's an investment in their future. I think that it's great that we've got these three schools as an option for so many students out there that need and deserve this kind of service that they provide. Everything costs money, but you can't put a price tag on getting an education, and especially with the flexibility that these three schools offer.

 

Absolutely correct. While the foreign credit evaluation services can evaluate a myriad of credits to determine whether they meet equivalences offered by, say, colleges and universities in the USofA, Charter Oak State College, Excelsior College, and Thomas Edison State College provide the value-added services typically associated with earning a degree: mapping existing credit hours to the requirements of a specific degree, maintaining student records, granting of degrees upon successfully meeting graduation requirements, verification services, an alumni association, provision of courses, mentoring, and testing services.

 

Sowak777, I will be honest,blunt, untactful, and un-politically correct.

If you think 1,600 is too much money to confer a degree, DON'T BUY IT.

Just keep going the B&M route and see how much money, time, and effort you have to spend to finish the degree.

I understand your intentions may be good, however saying someone could do it for 99 dollars is completely stupid.

 

Even the diploma mills charge more than that everyday low price. And the diploma mills have very low overhead expenses.

 

Perhaps, the logic behind was to assume that the Big 3 should charge the same as the diploma mills. Not a chance! As it is, a bargain. But I guess people will complain even if they could find a lower fee no matter what. Ha! As I have mention before this is not Burger King, you cannot have your way all the way.

 

[quote2]Perhaps, the logic behind was to assume that the Big 3 should charge the same as the diploma mills. Not a chance! As it is, a bargain. But I guess people will complain even if they could find a lower fee no matter what. Ha! As I have mention before this is not Burger King, you cannot have your way all the way.[/quote]

Thomas Edison State College has served me well. I had a lot of credit hours from years ago that would have otherwise gone to waste. In the process I learned quite a bit about distance education and the available options to pursue higher education.

 

Exactly. If one of the big three were to charge $200.00 for a RA degree, what would people assume? Degree mill!!!!! Can't be done. I think under $2,000.00 for any accredited degree, RA or NA, is a heck of dealio.

Abner

 

Something I remind my own students from time to time:

College is optional.

 

Philosophy and Sowak777 both make interesting points, but they have missed the original purpose of the Big 3.

The original purpose was to assist the adult learner who had started college and then stopped, sometimes many times, without graduating, to achieve the degree they desired. Traditional B&M's had established minimum residency requirements the would turn the enrollment process into a nightmare. their credit evaluations for admission would appear almost arbitrary as to which credits they would accept and whose they did not. Now I do understand why, remember, they are a business and their product is an education (in the form of credits and a degree), its a lot like bringing your own snacks to the movie, wheres' the profit for them?

That people can bring enough credits with them to qualify for their degree immediately, or even plan their degree before enrolling is a credit to their determination to earn their degree.

In all fairness I am a graduate of Regents College-USNY, and I lived that nightmare. My credits came from 8 B&M's in five states as well as several job related courses and a GRE. Trying to enroll anywhere meant virtually starting from scratch. I'm very grateful that Excelsior/Regents was available to me and I have put my degree's to good use.

So, can it be done cheaper, maybe. Will it, I doubt it. And in all honesty I don't care, What I recieved was easily worth twice what I paid.

 

Something I think I wrote in another forum:

You don't need a degree to find a job, but you need a job to find a degree.