Getting a Doc: Saybrook or Union?

Tom · Aug 27, 2002

Additional Schools to consider:

Carlos Albizu University, Miami, Florida (PsyD) (APA)
http://www.albizu.edu/

Florida Institute of Technology (PsyD) (APA)

http://www.fit.edu/AcadRes/psych/clinical/aboutprog.htm

BlackBird · Aug 28, 2002

Re: Re: Calling Lord Levicoff...

Originally posted by levicoff
Responding to Blackbird:

I don't remember many of the specific horror stories regarding Saybrook. I counseled a few Saybrook students by e-mail a few years ago, and don't recall whether any of them made it to the then-newsgroup (AED).

You can, however, do a search on old newsgroup messages about Saybrook, of which there are many - they can be pulled up at http://www.dejanews.com (which is now part of Google).

Steve... thanks for responding and taking the time.
I will check it out.

Regarding program length at Union, it all depends on the individual. Yes, the psych majors tend to take longer than the arts/sciences majors, but that's because they want to score their brownie points with their respective licensure boards.

Last I heard, the official average at Union was 36-42 months for a doctorate. I can tell you that of theten people in my entry colloquium, two of us did the program in the minimum two years. Most people did graduate in the 36-42 month time frame, and one took over five years. Those who can get throught the program in or close to the minimum time are either very systematic in their program planning (and not too many people can pull that off) or have had previous experience in a nontraditional degree program (I went into Union from what was then Vermont College of Norwich University, where the M.A. program model similar was similar to the Union Ph.D. model).

That's pretty impressive! Maybe when I grow up, I'll pull off a Levicoff feat! (Most likely I'll be the 36-42 months since I have to wear a few hats and dance at the same time!)

Thanks again, Steve for illuminating further!

Click to expand...

BlackBird

BlackBird · Aug 28, 2002

Thanks, man!

Originally posted by simon
Blackbird,

It appears from your postings that prior to considering which school to atend, it may be beneficial to guage the degree of your motivation and readiness to enter into doctoral studies. The primary issue centers around whether you are presently ready to endure the time, energy and financial committment required for doctoral studies whether in psychology or a related discipline.

Good point, Simon.

It also appears that you are seeking as short a doctoral program as possible, that will not bog you down for countless years. The issue of interminable hours of internships, proficiency in administering assesments, national psychology licensing exams and a heavily research oriented dissertation process do not seem to appeal to your current needs. This rules out clinical and counseling psychology.

Yes, you are right. Though I would like a "clinical psych" title... it is very costly at this point in my life.

Keep in mind that a doctorate in any clinical area of psychology in the state of Florida needs to be APA approved in order to refer to yourself as a Psychologist. Therefore, Union, Capella or Walden would not meet this requirement. Fielding is very research oriented and will take many years for the average individual to complete.

Yes, I am aware of that. Fielding right now is the only player in the distance and APA credential simultaneously. That will change, however, in the near future.

When and if you decide to pursue doctoral studies you may want to consider a doctoral program in Professional Counseling. Capella or Argosy offer relatively short term doctoral programs that can be completed within two to three years. Possessing a doctorate in professional counseling may not carry the "weight" of a Clinical Psychology degree but will provide the prestige of being alluded to as doctor, to engage in private practice, professional and executive coaching,conducting training programs and seminars and in writing books and articles, if one has compertencies in these areas.

I agree and I would add another point: By getting a Ph.D. in Psychology that is not clinical nor for licensure may position a person in a slightly better place than having the Ph.D. in Counseling (only). When I peruse over the APA Monitor issues, I notice that institutions look for either APA licensured Ph.D.'s or in some cases, Ph.D. in non-clinical psychology. You can argue that because it is the APA monitor ads that this publication is already skewed towards only Psychology. That is a valid point.

In addition, if one passes the National Clinical mental Health Counseling Examination which is required for practice as a Mental Health Counselor in Florida there is no need to be concerned about sitting for any additional licensing exams in psychology.

You probably can appreciate this better than I can. You sound like you already have licensure. Nevertheless, I agree... once you've got that license, even if it is at a Masters level, it gives you the same privileges basically as a License in psychology does other than a perception among therapists/peers, etc. and maybe assessment work coming to you.

Age is not the promary barrier to ultimate professional attainment as is the level of readiness and committment to undertake and complete a grueling educational process.

I have to adopt that as a mantra and say it louder as time goes forward and I hear my joints creaking!

Thanks for the great advice, Simon!

Best of luck.
Click to expand...

BlackBird

BlackBird · Aug 28, 2002

Thanks, Lineman!

Originally posted by lineman
Dear Blackbird:

Yes your information is very helpful. Thank You:

Good Luck with your quest for a PhD:

Thank You:
Lineman
Click to expand...

Thanks, Lineman! I hope you do well in your quest, too!

simon · Aug 28, 2002

Blackbird,

Regarding the doctorate in general psychology, keep in mind that if you plan to live in Florida you will not be allowed by law to refer to yourself as a psychologist. I believe that you would have to describe yourself as a Licensed Mental Health Counselor who possesses a doctorate in psychology.

It is also important to maintain focus on the primary objective: To pbtain a regionally accredited doctorate that will provide you with the opportunity to engage in myriad areas of professional interest. Yes, a doctorate in Psychology sounds more impressive however, the goal, based on your expressed needs is to successfully negotitate the doctoral process in the briefest timeframe possible. Furthermore, your expressed career interests do not appear to specifically warrant a doctoral degree in psychology.

There is a tradeoff. A man at your stage of life (I am older than you) needs to carefully examine what you specifically wish to accomplish with the doctorate and attempt to put aside the issue of "titles". If you are able to obtain a doctorate in any psychology related discipline including counseling it would address the majority of your stated goals. if you get caught up with the issue of titles, it may result in indecisiveness and consequently result in inertia and procrastination.

This situation is one that many of us are confronted with but can only be resolved by a realistic and critical self-evaluation that results in a bottomline: the attainment of an appropriate doctorate rather than a title.

BlackBird · Aug 28, 2002

Simon, you have some good points...

Originally posted by simon
Blackbird,

Regarding the doctorate in general psychology, keep in mind that if you plan to live in Florida you will not be allowed by law to refer to yourself as a psychologist. I believe that you would have to describe yourself as a Licensed Mental Health Counselor who possesses a doctorate in psychology.

Thanks, Simon, you are correct. The "psychologist" designation is a state legislated "patented" title. I realize that only those who go the long and repetitive APA route are "knighted" with that royalty.

It is also important to maintain focus on the primary objective: To pbtain a regionally accredited doctorate that will provide you with the opportunity to engage in myriad areas of professional interest. Yes, a doctorate in Psychology sounds more impressive however, the goal, based on your expressed needs is to successfully negotitate the doctoral process in the briefest timeframe possible. Furthermore, your expressed career interests do not appear to specifically warrant a doctoral degree in psychology.

I'm sure you mean a doc in "clinical psychology." Otherwise the Doc in academic (non-clinical) psychology would probably do as you mentioned. You do bring up some good points.

There is a tradeoff. A man at your stage of life (I am older than you) needs to carefully examine what you specifically wish to accomplish with the doctorate and attempt to put aside the issue of "titles". If you are able to obtain a doctorate in any psychology related discipline including counseling it would address the majority of your stated goals. if you get caught up with the issue of titles, it may result in indecisiveness and consequently result in inertia and procrastination.

I agree... as I get older, those titles mean less and less. For me, it would mean getting peoples' ears and a marketing of myself. A form of legitimatizing (sp?) my years of experience as a non-credentialized counselor/coach. But, yes, it is futile to get caught up in the ego-title game. That only lasts a little while and then people realize you are a human being and not a god... or in some cases they label you as a "jerk" if you are absorbed with self.

This situation is one that many of us are confronted with but can only be resolved by a realistic and critical self-evaluation that results in a bottomline: the attainment of an appropriate doctorate rather than a title.
Click to expand...

Thanks Simon, for you candid remarks. I imagine you already have your Ph.D. with your facile command of words "cascading" off these posts!

Log in or Sign up

Getting a Doc: Saybrook or Union?

Tom New Member

BlackBird Member

BlackBird Member

BlackBird Member

simon New Member

BlackBird Member

Share This Page

Log in or Sign up

Getting a Doc: Saybrook or Union?

Tom New Member

BlackBird Member

BlackBird Member

BlackBird Member

simon New Member

BlackBird Member

Share This Page

Useful Searches