Frustration with Touro PhD !

Ouch! I think I work for that company! When we were bought out we were required to become ISO certified. Previously our site had been the quality leader and innovator. After, we were brought down to the mediocrity of the other sites. It felt like quality took at least a 50% hit. As soon as the economy turns most the employees will be heading for the doors.

 

Kristie7: How many of these schools are on probation for the quality of their programs?

Bao: First, I would like to congratulate of your recent acceptance to the Grenoble Graduate School of Business. Hi Kristie, I do not know how many of these schools are on probation for the quality of their programs. My list is to support the fact that there are other colleges and universities on probation for various reasons (i.e., finance, quality, sport,....). IMO, Touro's charges (both TUI and TUC) are serious but fixable. I only ask everyone on this forum to give Touro (especially TUI) a chance to correct its mishaps. What do you think?

 

Andy - TUI is for quality and faculty issues, so when you say, none??? At lest one, right?

"AACSB and ACBSP, for example, categorize faculty as "professional" or "doctoral" qualified and sets minimum percentages. RA bodies don't go to this extreme."

This hits my earlier point that this will effect AACSB. If RA doesn't go into the extreme that AACSB does, then how would there be no issue of being on probation with RA?

Bao - Thanks for the congrats!!

I agree, we need to wait and see what happens, I just think that even if it is corrected, it has taken away from TUI.

 

We need to remember we are an insular group

I am heavily involved in politics and observe my fellow politcos hash out every single political revelation as if it is the most important thing in the world. It is to them, but to the average Joe or Jane on the street the vast majority of the crap doesn't affect them either way. They just want a job, safe neighborhoods, good schools, nice roads and to not be taxed to death. All the other stuff is just static until it is combined with failings in the aforementioned important areas. I don't even believe the fixes for Touro's problems are all that difficult. A careful review of the post listing Touros deficiencies will show it heavily leans towards coming up with a "plan". Since the inspectors undoubtedly told them what they expect before they left coming up with a plan is easy. Here, we will debate this Touro goof ad-nauseum when the average student/employer has no clue it ever occured. Heck, most employers it seems don't even check to see if a school was accredited much less if it has ever been on probation. Touro has come too far to let this be a deal breaker and will do whatever it takes to stay around for a lot of years to come. Need some perspective here.

 

Thanks, this was helpful for me.
Jack

 

Re: We need to remember we are an insular group

AMEN!!!

 

Hey Andy!!

Your quote below could explain why SACS is so bent at Auburn.

Personally, I feel that whole situation will eventually be dealt with quietly as neither SACS nor Auburn have anything to gain. Auburn doesn't want to tarnish its sub elite image and SACS doesn't really want to go toe to toe with one of the largest and most prestigious public institutions in its region. This is a lose-lose battle for both of them.

 

Personally, I feel that whole situation will eventually be dealt with quietly as neither SACS nor Auburn have anything to gain. Auburn doesn't want to tarnish its sub elite image and SACS doesn't really want to go toe to toe with one of the largest and most prestigious public institutions in its region. This is a lose-lose battle for both of them.



Au contraire! Vast numbers of Crimson Tide, Tennessee Vols, and Georgia Bulldog fans across the south would be elated!

 

Now come on!!!

If Auburn goes away that is one less football game people can get dressed up for. I have a friend who is an Auburn alum and her description of how people down there prepare/dress for the games is a laugh riot. The girls wear pearls and cocktail dresses and the guys wear sportjackets and ties. I am sure these are events which cannot be passed up.

 

Auburn is more than just an athletic member of the South East Conference, its also an academic member which other SEC institutions hold in high regard. Probationary status for them reflects badly upon other members as well.

 

Re: We need to remember we are an insular group

Hi Folks,

Interesting thread... I agree with chris, and I think we are all freaking out over nothing. Check out this faculty page:

http://www.tourou.edu/catalog/faculty.htm

I've been in the Ph.D. BA program for about two years and have never had a professor who wasn't at the top of their game. Most of the courses have been absolute killers in terms of time required earn high grades. I've done graduate assistant work (1 year) in the MBA program, and the students are sharp and highly motivated. TUI is a first rate team of scholars going boldly where nobody has gone before: 100% online instruction at the functional, managerial and scholarly level. There is no identical model in regionally-accredited North American education for them to follow. They are the model... So how about we chill out, open a bottle of wine, catch up on our journal articles and see what happens? Okidokee? Geez...

Cheers,

Dave

 

For those in the program that have spoken with officials, what did they say happened up to now? I am assumgin (only an assumption) thata school doesn't go on probation out of the blue, but were probably warned and they must not have corrected things.... any comments? Anybody know if this assumption is right?

 

Someone called my attention to this thread and I decided to take a break from my studies at to respond. Otherwise, I was not planning on responding to any thread or visiting here regularly until March break from school. First, I have no problem with Touro. The problem will be rectified; it is not unusual for schools to go through what they are being asked to do. I disagree that it takes away from Touro. Instead, it is a testimony that their program is being reviewed and it should be. Secondly, it is not accurate they do not use textbook. My Epidemiology class had more than 500 pages textbook which came on CD room plus another 500 pages of references I had to read and I read every page and did every assignment. My Theory based research class was fully loaded with references I had read as well. I am a Public Health Service Officer by profession and the course Epidemiology course at Touro was as current and practical as it could be.

Next, Touro has toughened its PhD requirements and it has now been posted on its web site. This is my second semester at Touro when I applied for Touro last summer, they asked for all what they now require although at that time, it was not posted at their web site. When I inquired why I was being asked information not public posted, I was told produce or no action on application. I had to comply.

Personally, a PhD from Touro or any accredited school will be very useful to me. I chose Touro because it has the best program quality and cost for me personally. The quality of instructors is equal to or surpasses any other school and I mean any other school. I have only done two courses successfully so far. The two instructors - each earned their doctorate degree from Harvard and UCLA respectively. The two classes I am currently taking both instructors earned their doctorate from UCLA. The question of quality instructor is a moot point as far as I am concerned. These professors are full time too.

Two weeks or even a month of residence in a school is nothing. I personally don't need it and I don't think it is necessary. I have friends from some schools that required such and they have complained it is a waste of time and money. Some might say you developed friends at such meetings and I have news for them. I have developed a couple of solid friends already and have exchanged phone numbers and talked on the phone with class mates. What else do I need? I think I can carry out research with online live class and telephone guidance without sitting in class. Right now some of my work is already used on national project. I tracked diseases and outbreak national for cabinet level departments in the United States.

I don't think any degree from any school would have gotten past where I am currently in my profession and I am not even at the top yet. All these talk about Touro is simply premature. If I was in the search for school and Touro has my program, I would go for it. It is like avoiding an airline that recently had an accident. It is in fact better because every aspect of safety is being reviewed.

Touro is not the only 100% RA school in the United States. Please don't ask me to name schools because I won't. The schools are all on the web site just search for it. I think the growth of Touro was getting too rapid and someone had to put a break on it and that is what has been done. Touro Health Science classes are some of the finest any where and I mean anywhere. They are researchers, authors, United States Uniformed Services Officers, U.S. Public Health Service staffers, Nurses, Physicians Assistant, Administrators etc people who are already making decisions that impact Americans and the world daily and I venture to say those in my class whose short introductions I have read are simply some of the best in the health profession.

After I earn my PhD in Health science fromTouro and (even now), I challenge anyone in my profession with a degree from any school to compare their work history, publications, etc and even pay check with me. Individuals not necessarily schools make a difference.

Just for the sake of arguments that is monitoring all these foreign schools outside the United States? Do we want to deceive our selves that some of them have no problems? I said recently that an AACSB school in the south was in trouble and still in trouble and got into trouble with some members of this forum.

I have enjoyed my only two classes at Touro. This semester, I am taking Advance Stat - Live Class and another asynchronous class. I have found Touro professors to be helpful, patient and very knowledgeable.

I am not worried about Touro at all. The issue is a temporary issue that will be fixed easily. Touro's problem if it can be called that is similar to what hospitals go through every day. Many hospitals are on probation but you won't know it. They are usually given 6 months to a year to clear up some issues after accreditation visits. Does that make the hospital program any less? No. Does that make the hospital staff any less qualified? No. It is just that there is an area that needs attention and it must and should be addressed for patient safety.

Stop the attack. I like the program and until the school's RA accreditation is revoked, I remain a student. The program is as good as any other. Folks, do not let no textbook required fool you. The course references and reading assignments in my courses (I print all of them in a binder) are worth more than two text books in each of the two courses that I have taken. In the epidemiology class, we actually used the current book used and developed by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, a preeminent U.S. Public Health Service Agency.

While this forum is the best on the web often some members are too caught in some details about schools that have nothing to do with at the work place such as whether a school is DL or not, on campus or off campus, residency or no residency. Folks just be good at your work, hold an accredited the degree and the sky is the limit. Take it from a recent immigrant.

It’s time to get a couple of hours of sleep after another night Touro assignment. Have great week everybody.

 

Correction to my Post: Of the two classes I am currently taking - one profesor had her doctorate from the University of Southern California and the otherv from UCLA. Therefore, the question of instructors or program is moot.

 

I do think it is interesting that those who have said the most that we should “live in reality” also are the same to say ignore this until it gets worse. In my opinion, and several others, even if/when they get off probation, it has hurt their momentum and reputation a bit. Especially the findings. I appreciate the comments from the students, and I would be doing the same defending of my institution, but the fact remains that there was something wrong enough to get on probation, and that has hurt them from where I thought they were.

 

Touro U in trouble?

As a new member I have been reading about trouble at TUI. It seems that there are conflicting interpretations as to the extent of the problem. Here's what one member quoted from the Middle States accrediting association about the problem at Touro:

It sounds like Touro can't enroll anymore PhD students until the commission sees compliance with their standards. Also the commission "postponed action on continued inclusion of TUI under Touro Colleges' accreditation." It sounds like they may not include TUI as accredited under Touro College.

This sounds like major trouble for TUI's PhD programs.
What am I missing? What options does TUI have?

 

Where did this come from?

Absolutely no one said this and it is misleading to say they have. What everyone has said is that this is a learning experience which will make Touro a better school. That is what accreditation is about. Has it tarnished their reputation? In our world and maybe in academia it has. However, the Touro graduate already had to prove their worth individually to an academic institution and this will not really change one bit when Touro gets off probation. If this requires strengthening the program, it may actually help future graduates in the eyes of academe. To the wide world of employers out there who do not follow the reports of RA agencies it will be unknown and have no bearing on Touro's reputation in their eyes. Our opinion is generally worthless to the average employer unless one takes the time to look up this board and review our comments.

Kristie, what if someone said to you that Grenoble resides in a country with business practices that have led the French economy down a path to where it has one of the weakest economies in Europe? In their eyes, anything learned there is out of date? Would you be offended? It is a true statement and the opinion of French schools would be based on limited truths. I have seen that very opinion made by people on other boards when referring to foreign business schools. I have seen the reverse said as a reason why so many foreign students come here. They come to see what makes our economy strong. Even our recent 2 year recession did not match France's 10 year slowdown. For your information, I think you have made an excellant choice with Grenoble. However, others will have different opinions.

Once again, if we refer to someone's comments restate them correctly.

 

Could this be a problem for Touro?

Yes it could, but like I said before it rests mostly on the PHD program and that can in the end be made to go away or be suspended until it meets MSA's standards. I do not think this will happen, though, as I am sure Touro will do whatever it takes to meet the standards. Inspections do not happen in a vacuum and there were discussions between faculty, staff and the team when they were there about what Touro had to do to make this right. TUC has a fairly good reputation as an osteopathic institution so it would be difficult for MSA to pull its accreditation based on a problem in a single program.

This being said, did anyone find the APUS's move to the NCA's jurisdiction instructive? APUS was originally in Virginia and moved from there to WV. NCU is also accredited by the NCA. Is there some perception out there that the NCA goes easier on DL schools?

 

Re: Where did this come from?

This was targeted at one person, which I quoted directly from a recent thread in which I was debating.

Exactly

Agreed.

Actually, this is the EXACT reason for my post. I did take the INCORRECT information posted by another as personal about Grenoble - and the reason for my quote. In this case, I have not posted anything incorrect, only my opinion it will hurt them, even when/if they get out of probation status.

Ouch! I have never heard anybody say that the recession in France has hurt the repoutation of the school, but if you think so, it is OK, it is only one opinion!

TUI is in California right??? How many billion dollars in debt is CA??? - Please dont answer, I make the example to show how silly the first thought is that a recession is dependent on the education value.....

I did - an exact quote - don't take it personal - it was not to you, the person who made both quotes knows - sorry to keep you out of the loop, but don't want to dredge up the entire discussion. He already knew of the statement and told me so.

I think a valuable lesson is learned. When it is not your school, it is easy to throw stones, but when it becomes your school, it hits more to home. It was nice that one quote came within a couple weeks of misstatements about my school..... the difference is I have not stated anything untrue, only my opinion that this will hurt the reputation, though I do think they will get off probation in the near term.

A second lesson too - you should probably ask the question of what I was referring to, rather than stating I incorrectly quoted, since you couldn't possibly remember EVERY thread (nobody can), and now I hope you realize I did not mis-quote and you were just not prevy to the information, but too late to put it back in the horse.

 

Clarification

Touro does not have a Public Policy department.

I do not think France's forever recession is an indictment of their business schools. Recessions are fueled by much more than a country's business leadership. A country's business practices are influenced greatly by the social and political climate. In France, the unions have great strength and are throttling the country economically. God forbid you ever have to go over there during one of their union's interminable strikes where they like to close down the country's transportation system. Been there and done that myself, not fun. Wanted to go to Paris during a farmers strike, didn't happen. Carlos Ghosn of Renault, a French company, has worked wonders at Nissan. Nissan performs far better than its parent company Renault because it operates outside of Frances stifling business climate. Goes to show it is not the country's business leaders in many instances but the country's people. However, many people would, and do, speak poorly of an economically underperforming country's business schools. This board is not the only one which discusses business schools.

To end this now, let's shake and go to our opposing corners.