Frank Questions About DETC

DETC is the US acrediting agency. Do foreign recognized (government) universities such as UNISA and University of Leicester really need such acreditation?

Foreign government universities may be recognized as equivalent to RA US universities and they are already Cadillacs.

 

Speaking of cars... having once worked at a gas station situated near one of Canada's richest cities ... where Jags and Mercedes were often driven in for gassing and servicing...

All high-end car owners are not created equal. The number of people who specifically asked for cheap tires on their Benz was astounding. The amount of crappy petrol that found its way into Jags, when the higher octane was only a few cents/liter cheaper....




------------------
Quinn

 

Pardon.. "... a few cents/liter less cheap ..."



------------------
Quinn

 

Happy New Year to All! Hi, this is Paul and I am currently visiting Taiwan where it is January 1, 2002.

I wanted to thank Degreeinfo.com this forum for providing me and others invaluable information about DL and I wanted to be be the first to wish you and your family a very happy and prosperous New Year! Paul in Taipei


------------------

 

Compare the CA Approval standards to that of RA and DETC and you'll find all to be virtually identical.

The World According to Wes -- who BTW has three RA degrees.

 

Dr. Bear,

Does OUUS offer a doctoral program? Actually I hope that OUUS can offer doctoral programs in a broad range like what OUUK does. But I can not find its doctoral program yet. Long time ago, once I contacted OUUK to see whether professors there in the Faculty of Technology are willing to supervise a student in USA in the Electronics subject. But it seems that they are not interested.

------------------
Jonathan Liu
http://www.geocities.com/liu_jonathan/distance.html

 

My thanks to all for the vibrant exchange. Your input is really appreciated. Perhaps naively so, but I still hope that some day this matter of accreditation will have some uniformity to it.


------------------
David F

 

First, you are another example that the transition from a DETC graduate program to a regionally accredited doctoral program is not impossible. But again, it seems more the exception that the rule. And that really shouldn't be -- at least not in my humble opinion.

You have focused correctly on the question. Is it that DETC schools produce less educated graduates? Of course, designing a study to measure "less" or "more" educated would be hard to conduct quantitatively. But I'd like to see the data some day.


------------------
David F

 

Aw come on, Paul! As a doctoral student, you know that positivism is just as mired in bias and prejudice.

Remember Newton and Einstein ...

BTW, how long until you're done at Capella? You must be getting pretty close, huh? The last part is the best!

Best wishes on your finish!!

Barry Foster
- who thinks that Paul C has historically made the strongest case for DETC I've heard. (Still don't buy it tho ....

 

Well, Barry, I am running on fumes at this point. Completed my proposal conference as well as Chapters 1-3. Finished date collection and have begun writing Chapter 4. Hope to have all five chapters done no later than mid February with defense and final edits done by end of March.

I can't express in words how ready to be done I am.

Paul C.

 

Ah! I agree that, *ON PAPER*, DETC, the regionals, and maybe even CA approval standards (less familiar with their standards)
look quite similar.

The unfortunate fact is, however, that in practice, the standards are very different.

Take the former ICS for example. A classic exapmle of DETC's fine oversight of the schools it accredits. Computer curricula being taught in 1998 that was vintage 1991. Laughably low standards for expected competencies. Very poorly prepared students graduating from said program. Did DETC ever do *anything* to get this program up to snuff?
Not that anyone has ever been able to see.

Or take the incredlbly sleazy marketing tactics of AICS (now ACCIS), which used a fraudulent accreditor up until the day it received blessing from the DETC to misrepresent to potential students the value of a DETC degree. Clearly prohibited by DETC's own policies... but they ignored their policy and accredited ACCIS anyway.

Or look at one of the many less-than-wonderful schools operating in California. Newport, for example. Has one or two degree programs operating in California, the balance operating in Hawaii... even though the school has no actual presence in Hawaii, and the staff is most likely the same staff as the California school. An extremely thin facade, but does California do anything about it? No.

By contrast, look at the regionals, which regularly put schools on warning or probation for questionable academic actions, and respond very quickly to legitimate complaints about unqualified professors or any academic integrity issue.

These examples are just illustrations; there are many other examples that provide further evidence.

So, then, the difference between DETC and CA on the one hand, and the regionals on the other is that the regionals have policies and actually enforce the policies they have with considerable vigor. DETC and California authorities on the other hand seem to be asleep at the switch at best, or more interested in receiving the fees they receive from accredited schools than in quality education at worst.

 

----------------------------------------

How many schools have the BPPVE shut down entirely? How many degree programs have been cut from other colleges? Although I don't know the exact answer I do know it is very likely in the hundreds in the past five years. DETC, RA, and CA BPPVE all govern [their] institutions. CA BPPVE is the only one of the three QA programs that can actually shut down an institution entirely. Some of the RA's do little (IMHO) if anything to regulate behavior and actions of their accredited institutions while SACS appears to be very active in the process. Review a previous thread I created titled "CA Approval versus RA -- What the Difference."

IMHO, the only reason the RA's dominate the accreditation scene in the USA is because of the age of the organizations, and members. The six RA's will for the next 15 years dominate but as distance learning and DETC grows so too will the number of DETC accredited institutions and graduates. When the playing field is leveled and it will level the RA's will have forced them out by creating their own competition. Keep in mind, less than 17% of today’s college students are of the traditional college age -- 18 to 23, the rest are older students.

Again, I don’t' profess to know the exact numbers but my guess is that the vast majority of college degree holders in the USA today (no different than myself) obtained their education via the old American way -- going to class on a traditional college campus. Since this is the way the majority accomplished this task this is the only method most of us will validate. As old-school training becomes the minority a new zeitgeist (The intellectual and cultural climate or spirit of the times) will gain popularity.

Well you get the point, the old school folks will die off and the new breed will take over. When the American society validates distance education (as you and I both know and cheer, this process is growing everyday) no one will give a da.n if the distance degree is accredited by one of the RA's or DETC.

Thank God forward thinking professionals exist!!!!

The World According to Wes

 

Good post Wes! For those who are looking for an accredited program, DETC degrees serve that need. Some people feel a DETC degree has little utility or value. My own feeling is that my DETC Masters degree has opened doors that were otherwise closed. Isn’t that what counts?

The future is a funny thing - the one constant we can depend on is change. Will the DETC be the single authority regarding DL programs? I am not betting the farm on it however, I do think that the DETC will grow in responsibility and one day is in the same league as the regionals.

 

John, you're mistaken this time -- a rarity based on what I've read from you before. I've copied and pasted all the programs offered by The United States Open University. You're correct that they're accredited by the DETC; but they don't offer any doctoral programs.

Business Administration, BS
Business Administration, BS (Joint Degree)
Certificate Advanced Web Programming & Admin.
Certificate Basic Web Applications & Programming
Certificate in Management
Computing, BS
Computing, MS
English, BA
European Studies, BA
Humanities, BA
Information Systems, MS
Information Technology, BS
International Studies, BA
Liberal Arts, BA
MBA
Non-credit
Non-credit Certificate in Management
Non-degree
Social Sciences, BA



------------------
David F

 

Two unrelated things.

As for California being able to close schools: unfortunately, no. All they can do is revoke or choose not to renew state approval. But they admit, sadly, that there is nothing they can do when unapproved schools continue to operate from California, with a license or some such from another state (as in the case of Kennedy-Western, Century, Pacific Western, Columbia Pacific, Frederick Taylor, Kensington, and others).

As for Open University of the US not offering doctorates: Thank you, defii, I stand corrected. They had planned to, but presumably aren't, at least in part, to meet DETC's requirements.

However . . . I have been in correspondence with a woman who appears to be working on her Ph.D., having enrolled in what OU of the US calls "our sister institution" in the UK. On rereading our communications, my sense of this now is that the degree will come from Open U of the UK, but she is getting supervision of some sort from the faculty in the US. It would be interesting to learn more about what this "sister" relationship is.

 

Indeed. Sir John Daniel (outgoing Vice Chancellor) always made the point that the relationship between the UK OU and USOU was much closer and more direct than that between UK OU and other partners such as Hong Kong Open University (which also offers UK OU courses, but awards its own degrees). But how close is the relationship and how it really operates is not clear to me. I am intensely interested in this, so if anyone has more information, please post!

 

I've critcized this "duality" for a long time. While the BPPVE may feel helpless when schools like K-W and Century continue to operate, they have no excuse when it comes to FTU, Newport, and Pacific Western. They continue to approve these schools, despite their much-more-massive degree offerings outside California's jurisdiction. I would think the BPPVE would be able to halt this "end around" by pulling the schools' approval, but that doesn't seem to happen. It makes Columbia Pacific seem tame by comparison.

Rich Douglas

 

So are we saying BPPVE is just a farse? They must have some type of overview of these schools?

 

I distinctly remember reading (before they attained DETC accreditation) that US Open was claiming GAAP accreditation through Open UK, I just forget if it was on the website or in printed material. When I get some time I'll check my files and search archive.org to see what I can come up with.


Bruce

 

The following is cited on the back cover of an UK accounting textbook (Year 2000 edition)coauthored by Richard Lewis:

"Richard Lewis .... is the Associate Chancellor of the United States Open University and was previously Pro-Vice-Chancellor of the Open University...."

Any implication?