Foreign Doctorates

Are you implying that Rich should diss them?

 

The following link will take you to the story of how a site visit team representing California found that two Deans working for Columbia Pacific lacked decent credentials (one had a PhD from U of Bremen, West Germany, and the other had a PhD from the U of Wales).

http://www.altcpualumni.org/chronicles/blackdeans.html

The document contains PDF's of original documents.

The above story would imply (at least to me) that many american PhD's and american universities hold little knowledge about foriegn universities. Bias or ignorance - I'm not completely sure.
Earon

 

Re: Re: Foreign Doctorates

That's rank and utter bullshit, Earon.

Foreign degrees are accepted in California just as readily as they are in British Columbia, and you know that perfectly well. (Or should.) The state is positively swarming with people educated everywhere on Earth.

An old Cal Tech catalog I have on my shelf shows faculty and research fellows with degrees from:

State University of Utrecht
University of Gothenburg
Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Federal Institute of Technology, Zurich
University of Copenhagen
University of Padua
University of Melbourne
Technion, Haifa
University of Skopje
Tel Aviv University
McMaster University
University of Toronto
Cambridge University
Free University of Berlin
University of Auckland
University of Manitoba
University of Munich
University of Bern (Switzerland)
Imperial College, U. of London
Universite' Paul Sabatier, Toulouse
University of Venice
University of Grenoble
McGill University
Oxford University
University of Edinburgh
University of Adelaide
Middlesex Hospital Medical School
Universitat Stuttgart
University of British Columbia
University of Zurich
University of Santiago, Spain
University of Athens
University of Heidelberg
University of Glasgow
Seoul National University
Chekiang University, Hangchow
University of Alberta
Wuhan University
Chengdu Institute of Radio Engineering
National Taiwan University
Univerity of Waikato, N.Z.
University of Tubingen
University of Pisa
University of Milan
University of Sydney
Technological University, Argentina
Tsing-hua University
Shanghai Institute of Biochemistry
Belgrade University
Australian National University
University of Manchester
University of New South Wales
University of Mysore
Indian Institute of Technology
Tata Institute
Technical University of Munich
School of Mines, Mons Belgium
University of Strathclyde
University of Brussels
St. Andrew's University
University College, Dublin
Reading University
University of Seville
University of Madrid
Bar-Ilan University
Uppsala University
University of Kiel
Univerity of Freiburg
University College, London
University of Tokyo
University of Poitiers
Technical University of Athens
University of Alexandria
Novosibirsk State University
University of Amsterdam
University of Geneva
University of Montreal
Pasteur Institute
Weizmann Institute
University of Buenos Aires
Central University of Caracas
University of Karlesruhe
University of Paris
University of Liverpool
Heriot-Watt University
University of Cairo
University of Capetown
University of Leeds
University of East Anglia
Futan University, Shanghai
Tsinghua University
Kyoto University
Osaka University
University of Technology, Eindhoven
Southern Mining Institute, Changsha
Moscow University
Chalmers University of Technology
Institute of Geophysics, Russia
Kings College, U. of London
University of Hokkaido
University of Thessalonica
University of Thrace
University of Hamburg
Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden
Polytechnical University, Gdansk
University of Sao Paolo
Warsaw Technical University
University of Liege
University of Stockholm
University of Cologne
Federal University of Sao Carlos
Warsaw University
Inst. of Geophysics, Polish Acad. Sciences
Moscow Geological Institute
Shanghai University
University of Vienna
Technical University, Clausthal
University of Leiden
Delft Institute of Technology
Technical University of Helsinki
University College, Hoshiarpur, India
National University of Mexico
Punjab University
York University
University of Rouen
Canterbury University, N.Z.
University of Clermont-Ferrand
University of Rome
University of Otago, N.Z.
Royal Roads Military College
Ecole des Mines, Paris
University of Waterloo
Bombay University
Wakayama Medical College
University of Nagoya
Allahabad University, India
University of Basel
Roorkee University
Yamagata University
Tokyo Institute of Technology
University of Agricultural Science, Budapest
Veterinary School of Alfort, France
Universite' des Sciences, Lille
Universite' Laval
Stanley Medical College, Madras
National University of Ireland
Universidad de los Andes
Witwatersrand University
University of Strasbourg
Durham University
Waseda University
Norwegian Institute of Technology
University of Frankfurt
University of Bath
Victoria University, N.Z.
Xian Institute of Aeronautics
Northwestern Polytechnical University, China
Osmania University, India
Queen's University, Belfast
Middle East Technical University
University of Genoa
Potchefstroom University
Joint Institute for Nuclear Research, Russia
University of New Brunswick
University of Western Australia
Nottingham University
Harbin Shipbuilding Engineering Institute
Chao Tung University
Sun Yat Sen University
University of Science and Technology, China
Stanislaw Staszic Technical U. of Krakow

BTW, the word "American" is customarily capitalized, in the same manner as 'Germany' and 'Wales'.

 

Tata Institute? The one that began in the very bungalow on Pedder Road where Homi Bhabha was born? That Tata Institute???

 

Re: Re: Re: Foreign Doctorates

It's an opinion that's obviously different than yours, Bill, and as usual your knickers have suddenly gotten quite knotted as you once again react in a knee-jerk manner (don't you have any alternate resonses in your bag?). The linked article (which I wonder if you bothered to read) tells a fact-based story in which two persons' degrees from very good foreign institutions are stated as less than american degrees by a team of PhD faculty from american institutions. Your reaction, Bill, is "rank and utter bullshit".
Earon

 

Re: Re: Foreign Doctorates

Speaking of bias, et. al. - the document specifically implies that the persons in question attened two specific univsersitie, and it was those degrees that were in question, yet no where could I find the CV's of the persons to verify that those were the degrees and the schools cited in the questioned CV's.

I also noted the unsubtle dig at Steve Levicoff, for being associated with some one who was part of the visit. Basically because one of the members attened UIU, and Steve atteneded UIU and you do not like Steve, thus the first persons credentials were in question. This is unbiased?

Okay I am waiting for your flame back.

 

Levicoff and I know each other, and we both studied at The Union Institute (and University). I'm from Calfornia. So did I bring down CPU?

Earon's article asks a lot of questions (and offers a lot of innuendo), but gives no answers. Some academics not recognizing a couple of foreign universities doesn't seem to be germane to CPU's lost approval. That the committee rushed to judgment on something they didn't understand doesn't necessarily mean they misjudged CPU.

 

RICH, FROM ABOVE:
I'm from Calfornia. So did I bring down CPU?

EARON:
With all due respect, Rich, I think for a moment you have chcked into your own fantasy.

The sole point of supplying the link is that two people with doctorates from two respected foreign universities were deemed to have 'less than' degrees (my term) by the state of California, based on a review by a group of individuals possessing PhD's from various american universities.

I do pose a number of questions in the article, for which I admit I have no answers. But I do have the questions. Suffice it to say that they are questions that have not yet evolved into hypotheses. I'm exercising integrity by posing questions which I honestly have.

Unlike some here, I have no beef with Levicoff (as someone else posed - nor have I ever had a beef with Levicoff). While I think he sometimes acts like a toad, he nevertheless has balls and wit, AND OF EQUAL IMPORTANCE, he, like I did with my thesis, posted his dissertation on the web for all to see. I have not yet seen anyone else formerly associated with AED or DEGREEINFO since its exception post to the web what they have done for their degrees.

As for Bill and I, we've always had a healthy disagreement going on over much of what either of us utters (even if Bill occasionally turns up the volume on his emotions). Surely, two (or more) opposing opinions can co-exist in the same conversational space, even at degreeinfo?
Earon

 

Huh???



And I suppose you think OJ was guilty?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Foreign Doctorates

Once again, I notice that you failed to capitalize the word "American". Why is that? It's happened in two posts now, back to back, so it must be intentional.

Earon, we all have a choice here:

We can believe that Americans in general, and Californians in particular, are so ignorant and insular that they refuse to accept foreign universities as legitimate. Or we can doubt that assertion.

On one hand, we have the claims made by an angry former student of a now defunct non-accredited college that ended up getting burned. A guy who just happens to be a friend of the school's owner.

On the other hand, we have the experience of our own senses. I live here in California, Earon. I encounter people with foreign educations literally every day. Appproximately 1/3 of all immigrants to the United States choose to settle in California. These individuals can be found on the faculty of every university in the state, and on the staffs of every tech firm. As evidence to support that assertion, I submit the staff and faculty listings from any institution that anyone cares to choose.

I have already done so for California Institute of Technology. The faculty listing is a veritable United Nations.

If you want to create a credible conspiracy theory, you need to make your arguments credible. I believe that I just blew one of your arguments (California insularity) out of the water.

 

The more I read on this board, the more I am getting out of the trance of California. I was born and raised here, and am trying to get a teaching job in Northern Cali. I am finding things are much different here than other areas of the country. I hope that California schools get up to date with the information out there.

I received a call from my step mother, who is a teacher, saying "what do you expect not finding a teaching job, you have an internet degree".... so sad.

 

BILL DAYSON:
Once again, I notice that you failed to capitalize the word "American". Why is that? It's happened in two posts now, back to back, so it must be intentional.

EARON:
Bill, is it your intention that you wish to let me know that you prefer that I capitalize the above word? If so, please confirm. Say so. Or are you intending to rally the local troups?

BILL DAYSON:
Earon, we all have a choice here:

We can believe that Americans in general, and Californians in particular, are so ignorant and insular that they refuse to accept foreign universities as legitimate. Or we can doubt that assertion.

EARON:
Bill, we have many choices. We can believe what we want. We can also express opinions. We can also express doubt. We can also pose questions. etc., etc.

I think you are making black and white assumptions on me here. I haven't made any truth claims about the reality of what goes on with all members within the the above peoples. I have expressed an opinion that contains some questions and doubt. That opinion is based on a sampling of a conclusion arrived at by five PhD types serving on a re-approval committee within california.

BILL DAYSON:
On one hand, we have the claims made by an angry former student of a now defunct non-accredited college that ended up getting burned. A guy who just happens to be a friend of the school's owner.

EARON:
You're making some assumptions with your above comments, Bill. I suppose that such an arguement would be made in the interest of attracting others to your opinion.

BILL DAYSON:
On the other hand, we have the experience of our own senses.

EARON:
I think what you mean, Bill, is that you have the experience of your partially informed senses, compounded with your partially informed opinions. Speculation is the norm in this conversational space.

BILL DAYSON:
I live here in California, Earon. I encounter people with foreign educations literally every day. Appproximately 1/3 of all immigrants to the United States choose to settle in California. These individuals can be found on the faculty of every university in the state, and on the staffs of every tech firm. As evidence to support that assertion, I submit the staff and faculty listings from any institution that anyone cares to choose. I have already done so for California Institute of Technology. The faculty listing is a veritable United Nations.

EARON: I have no argument with the above. But tell me, in what capacity do you encounter such people with foreign credentials??

BILL DAYSON:
If you want to create a credible conspiracy theory, you need to make your arguments credible. I believe that I just blew one of your arguments (California insularity) out of the water.

EARON:
Bill, I believe with the above comment you have just entered deeper into your own fantasy. "Conspiracy theory" is your own term, as is "California insularity" and the presupposition that I am making an "argument". Once again, I believe your use of those terms are rhetorical, expressed with an intent to sway an audience. You're poking at windmills, Bill. I'm not making an argument, merely expressing an opinion which raises doubts (my doubts). I am openly and honestly operating within the bounds of my own integrity. Surely we can do that within the same conversational space here on degreeinfo, Bill?
Earon

 

Kristie,
I like your term "getting out of the trance of California". Could you expand more on what that means to you? Could you also expand a little on what you mean when you write that you are "finding things are much different here than other areas of the country. I hope that California schools get up to date with the information out there.".

I think there is something valuable living within your comments, and I'd like to learn more. Please advise.
Earon

 

Of course not. He was acquitted. That makes him not guilty. But he did murder those two people, as a civil judgment against him for Wrongful Death clearly indicates.

 

BTW, I hadn't heard of Bremen, either. Perhaps these people should've checked before leaping to conclusions. I would encourage Earon to do the same regarding CPU's closure.

 

I am sure I will offend many by my exaplanation, but what the heck. I graduated from CSU and am attending TU MBA online.

I have attempted to get a part time, or full time teaching position at the commuity colleges and CSU Sacramento. I met with the Dean at CSU, and he said to be considered, I MUST have a degree from a AACSB school, in other postings I have put links to the job descriptions, but here it is - just an example:

http://www.csus.edu/fas/OB-Org%20Comm%20Vacancy%20Announcement.htm

I came to this board looking for an alternative. My employer has the same ignorance, only AACSB. I am finding that California is more ethnocentric than the US is. It is a huge change in thought processes. I took a real spanking on the Glaslow thread, but now am really stuck between the reality of the world (and many here on the boards), and the reality of California (which I live).

I realize there are great schools out there, and many have posted here that international degrees are many times better than AACSB schools in the US, but I am finding the perception different in my dealings with CSU and the Community Colleges here.

Since there is no offerings within a 3 hour drive for a Business PhD with brick and mortar schools, I am looking for an online degree (or limited travel), but when looking internationally the AACSB is not the highest priority, which is in conflict with what the parameters are for me.

I feel like I want to buck the system, and get this type of degree (like a Glaslow) and flight the ignorance, but I really would like to teach eventually and this might not be a battle I want to fight.

In 2000, when I was going to night school for my undergrad degree, there were 2 classes only offered at night, I found the classes offered at AACSB schools, but was turned down, since they were "online" - not transferable. I was told that this school "did not cater to the non-traditional student", and I needed to adjust my schedule to mid day classes. I had to appeal to the President of the School for an exception to graduate - I did this. The ironic part is that CSU's offer online classes. Not sure the logic, but there is a discrimination factor.

This is only my perspective.

 

Forgive me...and get real!

Professional academic life is a world all of its own! If you think otherwise, people delude themselves! Unless you are a 'top notch' published academic you wonlt get a job teaching/researching in a 'top notch' institution. To be 'top notch' you donl;t actually have to have a doctotrate! There are so many doctoratea wround these days, especially in the USA, that the degree is starting to become meaningless, especially if it is not from a 'top notch' instituition! So, if you want to teach at the sub-degree level I guess a doctorate from about anywhere will do.

It's publications that count more than anything else (I'm not stating this is right) if you want to get on as an academic in a 'top notch' US or European academic institution! A doctorate simply helps - it really does not open doors without the publications, or potential to publish - even if the publications are extremely good but quite useless other than as academics items of interest!

'telfax'

 

Re: Forgive me...and get real!

Telfax - Why do you think that many of the DBA's (research based) are located outside the US if it is so important to conduct research and get published, this seems to be in contradiction?

 

Re: Forgive me...and get real!

Two different profs from two different European universities have told me the same as what Telfax is saying. Both also told me that under that system (specifically in UK) one will usually have accomplished publications before completing the doctorate (at least working under any of those two profs). This also adds value to the prof's output.

In my case (doing a PhD out of an old European university which I won't name at this point) the prof provided me with one publication opportunity, in a peer-reviewed edited book, even before we signed the PhD agreement (Kavanagh, 2002/ "Epilogue: A Juxtaposition of Virtual Communities and Organizational Life", in Organising in the Information Age/ Ashgate Publishers). We are currently working on the second edited book, for another major academic publisher, due out sometime this year.
Earon