DETC and Accreditation Question

Thanks a lot for the suggestions!! I'm going to follow these through and examine which one I should look at first. Thanks.

 

While AMU/APU were accredited by DETC and in the process of seeking regional accreditation there were many persons on this forum expressing rather biased opinions about the legitimacy of AMU/APU. I enrolled during this time period and subsequently earned an associate degree after the institution received regional accreditation. Sure AMU/APU was not unaccredited when I attended, but there were students enrolled during the time period between unaccredited status and receiving DETC accreditation. Merely being unaccredited does not mean the education is substandard because every school in the USofA begins as unaccredited. Some of the most prestigious post-secondary institutions in the USofA have never been accredited (Harvard University, for example). The real problem surfaces when diploma mills try to exploit the in-between period (unaccredited to accredited) by falsely advertising their status, candidacy (if applicable), basically sell diplomas complete with back-dating option, and making remarks such as "accreditation is voluntary and holds no intrinsic value so we have chosen not to seek accreditation."

 

While I agree with the rest of your post, I have to note that Harvard has been regionally accredited (NEASC) since 1929:

http://cihe.neasc.org/about_our_institutions/roster_of_institutions/details/9946

There's an old thread on the topic of Harvard's accreditation here:

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?t=13927

 

Cal State University Channel Islands and UC Merced started out as unaccredited however during that period degrees were awarded under the names of other nearby accredited state universities.

 

The Christian Liberal Arts Bob Jones University remained unaccredited from 1927 - 2006 and only sought accreditation, I believe, in 2005. They have not, to my knowledge, ever sought RA but did receive national accreditation through TRACS in Nov. 2006 http://www.bju.edu/academics/accreditation.php. I believe many RA schools both recognized their degrees and accepted transfer credits from Bob Jones well before any accreditation was ever sought and awarded. Of course BJU is categorically an exception to the rules regarding unaccredited degree acceptability /utility.

 

Okay, I stand corrected on that example, but there were a few well-known US schools and research laboratories without accreditation. Obviously, in selecting Harvard University I was mistaken in my recall of that list.Although, between its inception and 1929 Harvard University was indeed unaccredited yet regarded as one of the premier institutions of higher learning in the US. "Harvard University, which celebrated its 350th anniversary in 1986, is the oldest institution of higher learning in the United States." (The Harvard Guide)

 

In that Harvard's regional accrediting agency (the oldest) New England Association of Schools and Colleges (NEASC) wasn't established until 1885; that's still 44-years before RA for Harvard. Of course I have no idea when Harvard decided to seek RA or possibly why ... seemingly RA would have done little to add to Harvard's reliability or recognition as a higher learning institution (e.g., who really needed who?).

 

The New England Association of Schools and Colleges needed Harvard University, of course. Just being associated with Harvard University is enough validation for some people.

 

Research laboratories, sure. There are hundreds of them. If they don't award degrees, then university accreditation isn't necessary. But unaccredited degree-granting schools? It's hard to think of many that could be called 'well known'. There are a small number that I believe are credible, but those are typically niche-players, awarding degrees for highly specialized applications where employers will likely already know the school.

My favorite California approved school was a well-known research institution for decades before it recently rolled out its first two PhD programs. It has hundreds of full-time researchers, receives tens of millions of dollars in research grants each year, scores well in the citation rankings, collaborates with other institutions on many projects (including a joint-degree program with the University of California), has produced a number of scientific breakthroughs and its faculty have won some prestigious prizes (such as the Japan Prize).

Unfortunately, that kind of example has little relevance to somebody who wants to cold-start a DL school from step one, without an existing institutional history of scholarship and research. The fact that a well-known research establishment can begin credible degree programs prior to receiving accreditation doesn't imply that a start-up with no reputation could do the same thing.

Personally, I think that the best road to starting strong and credible advanced degree programs in an academic subject is to have a strong prior history in that subject. That's why the NY-Regents list is so impressive (and so unlike what DETC offers). Sloan Kettering, CSHL, the American Museum of Natural History and Christie's were all big-time players and famous (in some cases winning Nobel Prizes) before they ever started a degree program. They hit the ground running and the fact that they are NY-accredited and not RA is almost irrelevant.

But that's not a path that a small educational entrepeneur can realistically take. It demands resources, effort and time.

 

I don't mean to get too picky but while your overall post was reasonable, the above is absolutely false. Harvard is accredited and the assertion that the most prestigious post-secondary institutions in the USA are unaccredited is really rather ridiculous.

 

sentinel
"... between its inception and 1929 Harvard University was indeed unaccredited yet regarded as one of the premier institutions of higher learning in the US...."

major56
In that Harvard's regional accrediting agency...wasn't established until 1885; that's still 44-years before RA for Harvard. Of course I have no idea when Harvard decided to seek RA or possibly why..."

Excuse me, gentlemen. The New England Association may have been established in 1885, but they did not start accrediting schools until 1929, and when they did start, Harvard was the first one they accredited.

 

As I wrote “Of course I have no idea when Harvard decided to seek RA or possibly why...” Thanks for providing this information.

 

The other important step that is missing is a state license. You have to apply for a license in your state to offer educational programs.

For-profit vs. non-profit is less of an issue-- but it can determine who you are licensed through, fee structures, performance requirements, etc.

 

I think increasing number of hiring managers pay attention to the accreditation.
This is especially true when preference is given to graduates from specialty accredited programs.
I know for a fact that Retheon managers hire only RA + ABET degrees engineers for many of Engineering and R&D positions.
Wile HR is only checking for recognized accreditation unless specifically told by hiring managers to look for specific accreditation.
As for jobs in IT and QA they don't always look for RA only degreed employees, you can find a good mix of RA, NA degreed persons over there and type of vendor certification is dominating here.

But almost 0% of unaccredited degreed persons.
I don't know if HR is using a book or check on line as some books / guides
take time to update.

Newly accredited universities m be still listed as unaccredited.