Century and CCU?

What noteworthy accomplishment has any of these schools accomplished this month to warrant its selection?

(Please don't say CCU's elimination of its doctoral programs and subsequent application to DETC. When and if CCU and/or Century are/is accredited by DETC, then I'd select one of them.)


__________________
Rich Douglas
B.A. (Sociology), The University of the State of New York
B.S. (Business), The University of the State of New York
M.B.A. (Business), National University
Ph.D. (Nontraditional Higher Education), Union Institute and University

Rich makes a point. When I first came on to this forum I remember a Dr. Carol ( I think) really taking pounding from some of the usuals around here about Century being a degree mill. You all may remember this. I have seen CCU also catch a lot in the past, but lately since CCU, and Century are rumored to get accreditation they seem to be in better standing here. Is this because of the accreditation rumor, or have the schools grown more accepted because of their practices?

Scott

 

Rich makes a very good point.

Intending to......
Made an application for......
Rumoured to be.......
Is seeking.......
Has made changes in an effort to ........

Is not the same as being accredited.

 

Do you really think the DETC would want to wait such a long time to make sure CCU has really mended their ways and has ceased granting excessive life experience credits, allowing for unproctored open-book exams, as well as the lax verification of credentials and transcripts they accept for transfer credit?


__________________
Gus Sainz
Distance Learning Business Degrees

Why in the mind of some is CCU legimate, and has utility, but others are not? If the above is true then how is KW, and PWU so much worse.

 

Kennedy-Western moved its license several times to avoid state regulation.

Century moved its license to New Mexico to avoid state regulation.

Pacific Western moved most of its operation to Hawaii to avoid state regulation.

California Coast University was the first unaccredited DL school offering degrees at all levels to have all of its programs receive California Approval, back when that actually meant something.

 

You need to look at the graduation requirements. That means the MINIMUM that the institution requires to bestow the degree. For KW that is apparently 5 classes and a term paper. That is so far below the standard as to be ridiculous, IMHO. KW has fled three different states to avoid being closed down for running a fraudulent school. KW won't enroll students from their home operating state in order to avoid legal problems. KW doesn't publish their graduation requirements. KW doesn't tell the student how many credits and for which classes the credits were granted for life experience credit. They instead seem to use the typical degree mill marketing ploy which is using life experience to deceive their victims into believing that KW is a credible academic institution.

These are all attributes of a degree mill that KW suffers from and that CCU doesn't suffer from. KW is the type of horrible degree mill that gives unaccredited schools like CCU a bad rap.

 

Since when has CCU attributed prior experience for credit? I completed the MBA and PhD program in management and I don't remember prior experience as an option.

 

How many courses are required at CCU?

 

Bill:

Why don't you call KW, and ask what their minimum is? You keep repeating 5 courses and a paper, but do you know this as fact. I had 6 courses, and some of the people on KW's pub have had 9 courses. I sent in my sealed transcripts, and had to take KW's entrance exams. Every exam I had to take at KW was proctored. Apparantly that is not the case at CCU according to Gus. I also read here that CCU requires 10 courses.

KW moving around their license is bad. You will not get an argument from me on that, but so has Century, and PWU. The fact remains that they are still legally operating, and require work to complete their programs just as CCU.

I started this thread to see why CCU, and Century have found favor in the eyes of some because of a rumor about DETC. If they become DETC that will be great. If they do not they are still Universities offering degree's.

 

I'm not Bill, but I *did* speak to a K-W salesperson about a year ago. I made the mistake of requesting their catalog online, which resulted in probably 10-15 phone calls and a string of e-mails which continues to this day.

Speaking to Brad Arend (sp?) I learned that with the maximum transfer credit applied from my first degree-- a social sciences degree-- and my work experience, a bachelor's degree in Business Administration would probably require 5 or 6 courses from K-W. Naturally, Brad couldn't commit to that without seeing my resume et al, but was comfortable with that as a ballpark figure. Whether or not this includes the 12 bogus credits that their catalog prescribes for the "Final Project" I'm not sure. But suppose, for a moment, that it doesn't-- that means that a MAXIMUM of 5 or 6 substantive courses in an area I have NO academic background in will net me a bachelor's degree in business?

By comparison, most legitimate schools require a MINIMUM of 5-6 lower-division prerequisite courses (like accounting, macro/micro-economics, finance, etc.-- virtually none of which I've taken) before the surface of the 30-45 credit "major" requirement is even scratched.

But K-W will let me do it in five or six courses. This, for the record, is two courses fewer than my local community college would require if I wanted to earn an associate's degree in business, even with 140 +/- existing undergraduate credits to choose from in transfer. Of course, the community college won't make me feel all warm & fuzzy by awarding me the equivalent of 30 credits "life experience" for just being such a darn nice-- and obviously competent and knowledeable-- guy.

Maximum.. Minimum.. at K-W the two seem to be roughly the same, and neither are particularly impressive.

I guess I'm a moderate, in that I don't necessarily want K-W burned to the ground & the earth sown with salt to prevent another mill from growing. I'd be happy if they'd just stop sending me ceaseless e-mails about their latest fire sale on bogus degrees, drop any pretenses about what they're really doing, and stop cheapening the whole concept of distance learning.

 

I don't go with the salt idea. The earth under them should be scrapped away and dumped into the bottom of an abandoned salt mine.

 

I do not think KW has at all tried to pretend that it is on the same level as a RA school. KW awards experience credit because it is aimed at mature adults with experience.

KW's moving around licensure, aggresive marketing in every little nook, and liberal experience credit is not something I am going to defend. I will not accept it as being a degree mill though. I worked harder on the 6 courses I took at KW than any other school so far. The exams were proctored, and the final project required a lot work. I can't speak for what other people have experienced there, and I will not take up for KW as a whole. I will say a degree mill it is not.

 

CCU's MBA requires 9 courses and a thesis or 12 courses otherwise. No experience credits and only 2 transfer courses.

I believe they may allow some experience credits in the undergrad program but, and I may be wrong, this is limited to 25% of the program in California.

 

Clemson's MBA program requires 62 semester hours, so is CCU's twelve courses considered anywhere near equal to RA MBA's.

My point is sure approved degree's are not the same, and nobody is claiming that they are. If KW requires 6 courses, and a thesis, and CCU requires 9 and a thesis then neither is equal to RA. CCU may be better, but to make CCU legitimate and KW a degree mill is unfair and biased.

 

Originally posted by plcscott
Clemson's MBA program requires 62 semester hours, so is CCU's twelve courses considered anywhere near equal to RA MBA's.



An MBA typically requires 36 s.h. Some more, a few less. The requirement noted above is likely due to prerequisite courses. The CCU MBA seems to be equivalent to 36 s.h. The question is whether or not it is academically rigorous enough to be considered comparable to an MBA from an RA school.

My point is sure approved degree's are not the same, and nobody is claiming that they are. If KW requires 6 courses, and a thesis, and CCU requires 9 and a thesis then neither is equal to RA. CCU may be better, but to make CCU legitimate and KW a degree mill is unfair and biased.

Oh, yes they are. A degree represents something. It represents a course of study and the accomplishment of it. Kennedy-Western (or CCU, for that matter) doesn't print "inferior to a degree from an RA school" on the diploma and transcript. People never put it on their resumes. They just list the degree and the school. Everything else is inferred. But you want to make a distinction that no one is saying a Kennedy-Western degree is comparable to one from an RA school. Wrong. They're saying it by listing it. Where's the truth-in-labeling?

Dirk Simpson
B.A., Kennedy-Western University (Not accredited and only requires 6 courses, but that's okay because it's not a regionally accredited school.)

Yeah, that'll get you hired. Of course, no one does this. The degree is awarded by insufficient means, then it is left to others for misinterpretation? C'mon.

If KW requires 6 courses, and a thesis, and CCU requires 9 and a thesis then neither is equal to RA. CCU may be better, but to make CCU legitimate and KW a degree mill is unfair and biased.

Why is it that because someone disagrees with you, he/she is "biased"? It's called "having a different opinion." Whether or not it is unfair is up for debate.

(BTW, the vast majority of practioners in this field would agree that Kennedy-Western is not a university. That's why they won't accept K-W's degrees for admission. It's also why the only press K-WU has received has been quite negative. (See The Chronicle of Higher Education's articles on K-WU.)

 

The K-W masters programs are apparently much closer to the standard than are their Bachelors programs.

The Chronicle of Higher Education called K-W a degree mill.

K-W is a known degree mill for many reasons. It is not biased to call K-W a degree mill and not call CCU a degree mill. The CCU degrees are equal or close to equal to the standard degrees. If CCU becomes accredited then we can say that they are equal. People are not discussing the possibility that K-W might become accredited because they would have to make very fundamental and significant changes before they would even have a chance of becoming accredited.

 

So if a standard BA requires 40 classes how few is too low to also be considered a BA? 6? 5? 4? 3? 2? 1? It is pretty clear K-W is trying to deceive both it's own students and the general public.

 

I agree and I think K-W has been very deceptive in it's marketing also.

To improve their image they should revamp their programs. Seek accreditation. Establish themselves so that they may accept students from all 50 states.

Establish a course program of 40 + classes. That would be a first step in the right direction. KW has a very long road to travel though.

 

Dave:

Most people come to KW with an associates degree, or more. I did. I cannot say how many classes each person should take, and I do not know KW's criteria for doing so. I had 25 courses in my ASEET program, and 4 more upper level undergraduate courses. I had 6 courses and a final project at KW. If that is 7 more courses then that is 36 total. KW gives experience credit for work in your field of study (in my case 16 years). You fill out all kind of papers in the admission process, and you have to have references. KW clearly states that it is a non traditional university for the mature adult with experience working in their field.

KW has many attributes that I am not at all fond of, and I will not argue as some have that KW is equal to a RA degree. I would love to see them turn the wheel towards some type of recognized oversight, but from my experience degree mill it is not.

Do you really consider a degree from COSC, or Excelsior by testing as equal to Georgia Tech.? No two degree's are equal are they?

Regards,

Scott

 

Equal in prestige? No. Outside of this board, and perhaps the 20,000 or so alumni of TESC, I'd wager that most of the inhabitants of the U.S. have never heard of my alma mater. Furthermore, most don't care. It's incredibly UNprestigious.

Equal in validity? Yes.

Fortunately-- at least, fortunately for me-- I haven't found a single graduate schools that requires applicants to show a bachelor's degree from a "prestigious" school, or a "residential" school, or from "a school that we've heard of." They generally require that it be from a properly accredited school, on the grounds that accredited schools have met at least a minimum standard. Many accredited schools far exceed that minimal standard. Some non-accredited schools might exceed that minimal standard, as well-- but until they demonstrate it in some way, we'll never be able to assume that, will we?

 

I have never heard of a K-W graduate having to do more than 6 courses and the final project. As a matter of fact, you're the only one who had to do 6 courses, everyone else was 4-5 courses.

I believe in coincidences, but not ones that convenient.