California Coastal

Oh, Lord. Here we go again.

Perhaps it is my intensely liberal leaning. Perhaps it is my professional bias. (I've made my career defending people.) Maybe it is my intense distrust of institutions in general. I don't know.

Whenever I hear this argument, I keep thinking that there are some SUBJECTS that CANNOT be studied by D/L EXCEPT through unaccredited institutions.

1) law (ABA)
2) engineering at the BS level (ABET)
3) Psychology (APA)

Perhaps there are others.

Nosborne, JD
(Whose JD is, admittedly, most traditional and accredited.)

 

There is no academic value to an unaccredited degree. That is the way it is. John Bear's study proved it.

An unaccredited degree will have almost no acceptance in the workplace as well. RJT, if you were really in HR recruiting like you claim, you would already know this. If you (by some miracle) actually are the director of recruiting for two business units of Unisys then I strongly suggest that you don't tell anyone else at work your ideas about unaccredited degrees because if you do, you won't be in that position much longer.

Have fun,
Bill Huffman

P.S. RJT, if you are interested in boosting your credibility way up to that of a complete stranger then I suggest you address some of these issues. Perhaps you would like to email me the phone number of your secretary so that I can give you a call tomorrow?

 

RJT

 

What would happen if you earned your degree in California with a CA-approved school and you were employed in California? Using the theory shown above by RJT, you would be OK, right? Now, what if you were to be transferred out of state? Would your company be obliged to honor your degree?
Now, if a tree fell in the woods........

 

Employers in California are no more bound to recognize degrees from California-Approved schools than employers in the rest of the world. There is no reason--and no evidence--to support the idea that such degrees have more acceptance with employers in California. Frankly, such things are on the very fringe of higher education; most employers probably don't know and don't care.

 

Perhaps the ABA, ABET and APA know something about thier fields and realize that quality education in these disciplines can't be conducted via DL. If so, perhaps folks should consider leaving their homes and going to class. Surely convenience (and low cost) aren't the only factors one should consider in pursuing an education.

By the way, you can add architecture to the list (NAAB).

Regards - Andy
-------------------

 

I apologize, my comment was intended to be a bit tongue-in-cheek.

 

I didn't mean to jump on it, but it's been another poster's recurring theme that California-Approval (or other forms of state-licensure) somehow ensures greater acceptability of degrees. There's no reason to believe this.

As far as using a California-Approved school's degrees out-of-state, this might even be a brighter prospect. I wonder if local reputation kills the utility of degrees from unaccredited schools. Perhaps not, however, as there is little said about these things in the newspapers.

 

I am very new to this (hence my many questions) and I often wonder why there is a debate at all. I simply don't get it. To me, it is only logical to get a degree that will be accepted anywhere you go and for whatever reason you will use it. I am not a very smart guy, but I really don't want to be embarassed some day due to my degree. Besides, my wife (a HR professional with a RA Masters) wouldn't let me!!!
Simply the 2 cents from someone who looks at things pretty basically. thanks

 

You're absolutely correct and this is the normal view, IMHO.

The reason it is talked about so much is that I believe we have some shills that may be getting paid by rich degree mill operators to try to sell the near useless product of unaccredited degrees. Admittedly also part of this group are some people that have just sincerely bought into the whole mill-think and apparently feel compelled to continually keep defending their crippled credential. The way they have chosen to carry out this defense is to convince others that they should purchase similarly crippled credentials.

 

Well, it seems like RJIT may be making the 6 figure salary that he claims. Shills and promoters of degree mills can make a juicy salary and that seems to be the primary reason why we have some people defending them,

Here is an ad from KW looking for an admissions "counselor" that pays $98,000 a year.

"A successful Admission Counselor can expect to earn an average of over $98,000.00 per year."

http://careers.kw.edu/opportunities.asp

One wonders the role of this counselor, I bet is not the classic role of a university counselor.

When one sees that the faculty makes $2000 a year and the "councelor" $98000, then we can see where is the strength of KW

 

I know nothing of the inner workings of K-W. But with them, the word 'admission counselor' actually seems to mean 'sales'.

Notice the artful phraseology: a *successful* counselor earns an *average of over*. That suggests to me that they are paid by commission rather than by salary. How much they are paid probably depends on how many students they recruit.

The webpage you posted tells those interested in the position that it involves "no cold calling", and that the requirements include "three to five years sales experience", an "engaging phone personality" and the ability to "control conversational flow". As an incentive, there's that always-popular "European vacation contest". (I wonder how you win it?)

I also notice that while sales experience is a job requiement, there is no mention of higher education or counseling experience.

 

Bill - This sort of arrangement is one reason that K-W will probably never achieve regional accreditation. RA agencies have taken a dim view of commision based admission personnel.

Regards - An dy

 

I assume that their 'admission counselors' can work virtual? I further assume that they might even hire 'admission counselors' that live in Newtown, PA and go by the initials RJT?

 

As they should. But all sales people work on commission, either directly or indirectly. If you're a salaried salesperson, you still have quotas to meet, which provide the same pressures as straight commissions do. (Ask any Saturn salesperson.) You gotta get your numbers. Now, if admissions person's job effectiveness is not measured by number of enrollments, great. That's how it ought to be. But if they are, then it's no different whether they're on salary, commission, or a mix of the two.

(I was on a mix at Xerox and straight commission at Prudential.)

 

I'm inclined to believe RJT is not being paid by Kennedy-Western, at least not as an admissions person. I can't believe they'd actually send out an illiterate shill to acquire enrollments. Not because they wouldn't stoop so low, but because I don't think it would be effective.

Now, I wouldn't be surprised to find that he's paid to keep their name in print. But what I really believe is that he's a clerk at Unisys with a bad bachelor's degree and a penchant for acting the provocateur.

NB to Robert: What was with the "Roberta" persona? I hope your closet does not also reflect this, umm, "hobby."

 

I definitely haven't counted out your troll theory. Although, I still lean towards him being a gung-ho K-W employee that is hoping for advancement within the K-W organization as a reward for his shilling activities here on degreeInfo. It appears that K-W has a policy of placing shills on the Pub. I would guess RJT decided for extra brownie points by shilling outside the Pub in addition to his Pub shilling assignment.

 

In all fairness, there is a Robert Thomas in recruiting at Unisys:

http://www.diversitycareers.com/articles/pro/apr-may-02/SysEng.htm


Same person?

 

If that's him, he's no clerk. Even more reason to question his educational choices. But not if he'd stop trumpeting them. I'm pretty sure most posters here are pretty tolerant of others' choices, especially when they're presented in a reasoned fashion.

But the spelling and grammatical errors!? Can someone directing global recruiting really be that illiterate?

I would not expect that RJT hijacked Robert's identity, even though he created another (the mysterious "Roberta") for his use.

Unfortunately, the one source who could clarify all of this is the one difficult to trust.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA Oh man, I must admit that I'm mind boggled. I was so convinced that RJT couldn't be who he claims that I emailed Mr. Thomas to warn him that someone was apparently hijacking his persona and using it on the Pub and here on degreeInfo. Sorry, RJT for the unsolicited email. Sorry for being so wrong.

RJT, you just don't make sense. You claim to have 103 RA credits and yet you go to a degree mill to "finish up"? My gosh man, if this is true you could earn an RA degree for way less money and probably faster than you could have at K-W. When/if K-W is closed down then your degree will be flushed. (Of course it's not worth much so it doesn't really matter much anyway.) You actually seem to believe that K-W has an advantage over some RA schools because the RA schools are state licensed! How the heck could a real HR recruiter believe that a company could be violating fair hiring practices by rejecting candidates because they have an unaccredited degree?

Stunned puppy,
Bill Huffman

P.S. Dennis, thanks for the information. Hopefully I'll be recovered by tomorrow.

P.P.S. Juggernaut! (Referring to RJT's post on the Pub.) HAHAHAHAHAHA