BA in 4 Years: A More Realistic Approach

Is one bachelors enough

Lawrie Miller, you make some excellant points. I switched directions sometime after earning my BS. But I did not need a new bachelors, only a few courses in the new field.
The question goes back to Ken, why did you need a 2nd ba/bs degree?
The other question would be about dropping out. A second BA can usually be obtained for 30 semester hours at an institution. If the 10 classes by examination or portfolio was that easy, why drop out? Whenever you include college records in job applications you would have to include the college transcript of a "dropout". Unfinished classes don't look attractive. Especially if they were that easy.
Finally, wouldn't be just as easy to earn a Masters degree for about 36 credits as it would be to take a 2nd bachelors for around 30 to 36 credits?
My thanks to Lawrie! Logical thinking and interesting deductions.

 

The TESC degree was to be in a different discipline than my first undergrad... no, I am unaware of any accredited masters degree which is as easy as TESC (and easy was the key)... once I no longer needed the degree, why pay the extra fees (I am not into collecting meaningless credentials to paper my wall)... finally, I have no intention to every use this transcript for anything so I am not worried about being a "drop-out" from TESC.

Anything further and, I am sorry, you are out of luck... none of your business. I gave a good-faith post and you can feel free to take it or leave it.

 

Dennis Madarang

Hi, Johnny..

Sounds like you're the one that's out of luck. But thank you anyway. I'm always appreciative of people sending thousands of dollars to TESC, amassing large numbers of credits, and ALMOST graduating but never burdening the school with the administrative tasks of awarding degrees or issuing transcripts. It helps keep my costs (as a New Jersey resident) low.

So, speaking of dropping out: How IS that H-W MBA going, anyhow? I was considering the program until I realized that my RA degree from Thomas Edison would allow me entrance to a graduate program through the FRONT door. Quite a shock, given recent discussions here.

And, hey.. thanks again.

 

how can you "not" use a transcript

Ken, I do wish you luck.
But, I am concerned.
In some professions when one applies for a job, the employer requires review of college transcripts. I know of two teachers who submitted transcripts from the college where they got their BA/BS degree, but not transcripts from all the colleges they attended. In these two cases the teachers were not offered permenant employment after original probation. The "...incomplete and misleading..." application materials were cited as the reason.
I do hope things work out for you.
All the best!

 

Circus Side Show

This is unbelievable. I hope people are not trying to equate an accredited undergraduate four-year (full-time) degree with a 4-Week BA... Surely this is some kind of joke?

What kind of quality control can a 4 Weeks BA program have? I teach undergraduate college courses in physics, chemistry and organizational behaviour up here in the Great White North (a.k.a. Canada) and I have never heard of such a thing!

When I applied for my teaching job, I had to supply transcripts, certifications, photocopies of my diploma. I took ONE course via DL in my undergraduate program and it was marked with an asterisk on my transcipt (*) indicating "external studies". The Dean asked me about it.... since I did recieve an A+ (of course, it was DL)... Well, since it was in "Technology and Society" it was not hard to explain away as a "bird course", but it was quite distressing to have to explain myself.

I work in academia, and it's just plain no acceptable to carry on with this nonsense.

That asterisk (*) is like a cancer on my transcript... I wish I never took it.

 

Re: Circus Side Show

Let me introduce you to the University of London External Programme. It offers bachelors degrees in a number of fields, entirely by examination, without offering any instruction in those subjects at all. I'm sure that the total time spent writing its examinations totals less than four weeks.

If you have virtually no experience with distance education, and apparently place so little value on it that it embarrasses you that you took even one DL class, then why in the world are you participating here on Degreeinfo?

 

Re: Circus Side Show

You've missed the point, Scott. Every post I've read related to Lawrie's BA in Four Weeks program refers to earning an accredited undergraduate degree. His website mentions Excelsior College, Charter Oak State College, and Thomas Edison State College specifically; each of these is regionally accredited.

BTW, have you missed the Distance Learning initiatives referenced on the Province of Ontario's website, too?

It seems your higher education establishment is recognizing distance learning as a viable and even necessary learning model.

I teach undergraduate college courses in physics, chemistry and organizational behaviour up here in the Great White North (a.k.a. Canada) and I have never heard of such a thing!

Where, Scott? I tried to find your faculty listing using a Google search, but your school must not list you in their website.

When I applied for my teaching job, I had to supply transcripts, certifications, photocopies of my diploma. I took ONE course via DL in my undergraduate program and it was marked with an asterisk on my transcipt (*) indicating "external studies". The Dean asked me about it.... since I did recieve an A+ (of course, it was DL)... Well, since it was in "Technology and Society" it was not hard to explain away as a "bird course", but it was quite distressing to have to explain myself.

I work in academia, and it's just plain no acceptable to carry on with this nonsense.

Um, well, you think so. It appears your governmental education authorities have a different opinion.

Regards,


Tony

 

odd rules for credit

Thanks Scott! Was your degree north of the border? Is your college new to on-line, interactive tv, videotaped classes, type of programs? Why would they segregate classes on a transcript?
I have checked with several of my local colleges, Champlain College in Burlington, VT, the University of Vermont and Johnson State College in Johnson, VT. All of them offer some courses on-line. All said they do not distinguish between campus based classes and on-line classes on transcripts.
I also asked about clep/dantes. Each said they are listed by title, credit and pass. The same with AP credits. The same as someone who challenges a course and passes an extensive test. They said they do not distinguish the clep/dantes/challenge/ap course on the transcript from any other classes.
The University of Vermont will allow someone who had calculus in high school to start with Calculus III. If they pass they then get Calculus I and Calculus II listed on the transcript as a Pass. Again, no distinguising it from chair-sitting on campus coursework.
Questions for Scott- does your college allow a student to "challenge" a course? Challenging courses is a fairly common option at many colleges (all of the above three have a challenge process).
Does your college team with a high school to offer college credits for college level courses taught at the high school. For example Vermont Technical College works with several area high schools to offer college level calculus, physics and compter assisted drafting for high school seniors. A high school senior taking advantage of this program would start VT Technical College with about 15 college credits. Plus they would still be eligible for advanced placement credits in several other fields.
I appreciate your helping me to understand the college system you work in. However, I can't see why putting "*"s on transcripts makes them a better college?
All the best!
ps As a guidance counselor I encourage high school students to take advantage of all their skills to start college with the most possible credits. Money is short for most students. Starting college with 18 credits in AP testing can save 1/8 the cost of college. I have had students that take full advantage of the VT Technical College program and AP courses, to start at VT Technical College as sophmores with 24 to 33 college credits.

 

Re: odd rules for credit

Hi, Irat. Assuming that what Scott says is really accurate, he may be referring to *extension* rather than *external* credit.

Some "name" schools offer their DL programs through a separate community outreach division. The University of California is an example. UC has not offered any DL degree programs until the last few months, when UCI rolled one out. But they have offered huge numbers of individual courses and certificate programs through the extension divisions at each campus. These programs are generally open admissions and are rarely taught by regular university faculty. The courses do carry university credit, but they are clearly marked as credits from "UC Berkeley extension", not "UC Berkeley". That distinction would be noted on your transcript.

I don't mean to diss these classes, BTW. They are usually taught by industry professionals and are often very good. UC offers many continuing education courses to computer professionals in the Silicon Valley for example, that are highly regarded.

I can't imagine why anyone would be embarrassed to have one of these courses on his or her transcript. Employers love to see continuing education.

 

I am convinced that anyone who carefully reads Lawrie's "BA in 4 Weeks" website, will understand what this is all about. No, it is not a mill program, but simply an organized way to achieve through testing a valid, accredited B.A. degree. It is a B.A. degree, but no, it is not a Harvard or Yale degree.

All this talk about "educational process" is just so much rubbish. Home schoolers hear much the same thing from the government school fanatics. If you know the stuff, why be bored to tears sitting in a class when you can be doing things of much more value?

I detect a fair amount of snobbery from some here, which makes me wonder the same thing already mentioned: why in the world hang out in a forum dedicated to the promotion of distance learning?

Craig

 

Re: Circus Side Show

Scott,

Chin Up! If you really did complete a DL course we are all very proud of you.

Next, try a degree from Athabasca and then come back and tell us how you aced the program. I will be trully beaming at your success in the DL world.

John

 

Re: Circus Side Show

Scott,

What I find unbelievable is that the nay-sayers don't have the integrity to admit that what it really comes down to is personal preference. Some will simply *prefer* to take courses in person, while others will prefer different means of course delivery.

It is not at all unbelievable that many who work in academia may tend to prefer traditional methods of course delivery. But claiming to work in academia isn't necessarily going to earn you any credibility as one who knows how courses should be delivered, if that's what you're thinking.

I think that many who make the really vast and unreliable generality that DL courses lack quality and/or credibility even (or especially) when it comes to RA programs, are simply trying to impose their preferences upon others. Speaking for myself, I think that's the nonsense that needs to stop.

Tracy<><

 

As one who has taken DL course when they were truly "correpondence" courses and regualr class room work up to and including law classes (did not finish due to work conflict). I will strongly agree with those that say that class room learning is easier. You get immediate feed back and can get cues from others on what the teacher ment.

Working on your own, especially when you do not quite get some nuance is very difficult.

 

Re: Circus Side Show

Most Australian and UK universities have part-time and external (with some residencies) PhD programs. Do you mean that only full-time PhDs are eligible for working in academia? Any supporting figures about the percentage of faculty staff who came from full-time PhDs? I don't think it is a SHAME to admit to study in DL or external courses.

 

Part-Time versus Full-Time

Some British universities allow "external" registration for PhD studies, but require around 30 working days per year residence. Since a part-time PhD is usually around 5-6 years, this is 150-180 working days during the whole program.

With the average North American semester being 14 weeks (70 days), this would equate to around 2-3 semesters or 1 to 1.5 academic years of residence.

The average North American full-time PhD program is 3-4 years. Ususally the first, and maybe second year requires full-time residence, at which point the remainder of the program can be taken part-time or off-campus.

So, the program are pretty comparable in terms of residency. Academia should not have a problem with a part-time PhD. However, a strictly DL PhD (i.e. no residency) may run into problems.

There is more to PhD studies than just reading and research. There is that personal interaction with one's supervisor and other students that rounds out the experience. To get a feel of what I'm talking about, visit the libraries of Oxford, Harvard, Cambridge or Princeton... (I, personally have only visited Oxford, but assume that the others are comprable. If I'm wrong, I apologize).

Reading for a PhD is an enlightening experience. I doubt it can be done all alone with some supervisor half-a-world away sending the occassional e-mail or phone call.

Just my opinion.

 

Re: Part-Time versus Full-Time

Scott,

I understand that this is just your opinion, but let me help clarify.

Since you don't really have any DL experience to speak of (much less at the PhD level) you can't really say for sure how often contact with the supervisor takes place. It seems to me that it could take place as frequently as the PhD candidate wanted--at least that has been my experience with undergraduate DL courses. If I wanted to contact my instructors daily be e-mail, phone, or fax, I was free to do so. Why should it be different at the PhD level?

Tracy<><

 

Re: Part-Time versus Full-Time

I know some people, living outside UK, study for UK PhD (in economics, management, etc) externally and they need to meet X days of residence per year or 3X days at the end of three years, etc. (different policies for different universities). In fact, they told me the interaction between them and supervisors was not as much as expected. They need to submit their progress reports half yearly or annually and make contact with their supervisors (by email, fax, phone) regularly (the definition of 'regularly' depends on different supervisors). As a result, I don't see there is substantial difference between a 100% DL PhD program and a 90% DL PhD program.

Of course, in some other academic disciplines such as medical, physics, etc. period of residence will be very important because students need to use university's lab. for their researches. As to management and business administration, it is more easy to access a good library locally. This may be why there are more and more DL PhD programs in management, education and non-lab. areas.