Army: Looser rules could attract up to 600 new officers

Re: Excellent points!

Sorry, my message posted three times, I have no idea why!

Abner

 

I don't have proof to the contrary but I strongly disagree. I think most folks (whether they'll admit it or not) join the military for two main reasons: employment and a change of pace...period. I believe they feel if that if they have to "serve their country" to achieve one or both of those goals, so be it.

I say this because a majority of the people in the military aren't taking advantage of educational opportunities. Sure, they learn a trade at tech school, but in most cases that's a far from what is typically considered "getting an education".

Even in the Air Force, where you've literally completed half of an associate's degree by the time you finish technical training, you'd be surprised how few second, third or even fourth term Airmen actually complete it.

I can say from personal experience most of the senior enlisted folks only get serious about college when it affects their promotability. And now that the Air Force has officially deemphasized the importance of master's degrees for officer promotions, you'll soon notice fewer officers pursuing advanced education beyond PME, too.

If most folks joined to get an education, we'd see far more young troops busting butt toward that goal during their first or second term--instead of getting in gear after they're officially lifers with 15+ years served, if at all.

 

I was actually referring to the specialized training that you receive while in the service. This is of course referring to the advanced electronics (which includes several specialties), medical fields (LVN's and Medics), and Nuclear specialties where you can actually use your training in an outside job. After Navy B school, you have more actual training than most advanced electronic techs with an AA or AS degree. (and can actually fix things - something that a great many AA degree Techs with little or no experience can do).

Employment? I guess that depends on the area of country where you are from. In the SF Bay Area, even when there was a lot of bases (most have been closed), the average Airman or Seaman (Soldier or Marine) could barely afford to live in on base housing. Even during the recession, a great number could get jobs that would far exceed any pay or benefits the service could offer.

 

I don't think the CG, Navy, or Air Force will have a problem recruiting. The reason is simple, (IMHO) - you don't see hand to hand combat and most (unless you opt for the Navy Corpman rating which puts you side by side with the Marines) never see active combat.

If I had to do it all over -- I would go into the CG and stay in as a reserve. Patrolling the SF Bay looks like fun! (at least that is what a coworker said - he is a Senior Chief)

 

This country isn't at war. Even this country's military (as a whole) isn't at war. This country's Army and Marine Corps ARE at war, and in an unjust one that this nation neither feels nor supports. Hence, their recruiting problem.

If this war represented a true national interest, there would be no problem with people getting behind it. Look at our response to the terror attacks on 9/11. Look at our willingness to get behind the attack on the Taliban. But Iraq? Even people who support that war have to admit that it has nothing to do with their lives. We're not threatened in the least. That's why the Army can't recruit. It is an unjust war. Recruits (and, more importantly, their families) dont' want to go. (They did in most past wars, including much of Vietnam.)

The next sacrifice we as a people have to make regarding this "war" will be the first. No, we're not threatened, so we won't support it. And putting a bumper sticker on your SUV proclaiming your "support" for the troops (whatever that means) doesn't cut it. You support our troops? Send your kids to fight alongside them.

 

Observation

Hi Mr. Engineer:

I just had to add something. On my break in the mornings, I go to this little donught shop straight out of the fifties. There is a group of older white men that say some of the most politically incorrect stuff I have ever heard (although it does not surprise me). I have learned to tune them out, one of the reasons is a am hispanic and I do not care for some of the terms they use. Anyway, up until recently, they were the most staunch republicans in existance. Then, for about a week now, they have taken the opposite direction. They were ranting about outsourcing, the cost of gas $2.75 in CA, how little jobs paid, on and on on. Another complaint was the extreme cost of the war in Iraq. They also said Baby Bush should send the "twins" over to Iraq if he thought it was so worthwhile.

Just a few observations of the tide turning,

I never thought this jolly group would turn against Bush!

Abner

 

Re: Observation

And what, praytell, does this donut eater do for a living?

 

You're Right

My very Democrat county which carried Gore in 2000 and has not had a single Republican officeholder since the 70's carried Bush in 2004. Coffee talk means crap. Voting means everything and Bush won big in 2004 despite a whole lot of trouble like the war.

The tide is turning and it isn't in the Democrats favor. They are out of touch with reality and the electorate...

 

Re: Re: Observation

Hey Ted:

I work in the public sector. I specialize in Rapid Response, basically, that is going out to companies that are having large lay offs. I then provide lectures, info. etc. on steps the workers can take to obtain employment as quickly as possible. I like it because I am a people person. If the company is good and they are truly interested in helping there laid off employees, it helps. However, I have been to companies that have me deliver the bad news (In other words, it is a surprise lay off). The hardest situations I face is during the Christmas season, it seems that is when to most lay offs/closures occur.

This is one of the reasons I despise outsourcing so much.

P.S. I am also a Job Steward for the union and teach Martial Arts.

Take care Ted!


Abner

 

Re: You're Right

DTechBA:

Like I said, this was merely an observation I was sharing with somebody. I did not mean my observation to be evidence of anything, only my opinion. What baffled me about this group of "Archies Bunkers" was there sudden turn in attitude. I suspect it is because many of their grandchildren are affected by current issues, like being unable to obtain a decent paying job, while gas and eduction costs are skyrocketing. My coffee shop observations baffled me because I live in an extremely conservative county dubbed the "The Orange Curtain".

I am baffled you think the tide is turning against the Democrats, I guess you don't believe in polls either.

take care my friend,

Abner

 

Re: You're Right

Which has stated today that 60% of it (the electorate) is in favor of bringing home some (30%) or all (30%) of our troops from Iraq. I think it's safe to say the Administration isn't about to do that. Talk about being out of touch....

 

According to Gallup, a larger pitiful minority of Americans think Congress should belong to the Democrats and a smaller pitiful minority of Americans think that Congress should belong to the Repulicans.

The MAJORITY is disgusted (as I am) with BOTH parties!

 

The Republicans are acting as arrogant as the Democrats were in 93 when they were kicked out. Watch out - in mid term elections the tide might turn and I can guarantee with will be payback time.

 

I believe in polls, but only the ones that happen on election day.

The Dems can be as critical as they like, if you can't win seats in the mid-term or find a candidate that can actually win the White House, you're just blowing hot air and sour grapes.

Polls are cute and all, but the proof is in the ballot box.

 

We will see!

Polls are cute and all, but the proof is in the ballot box. [/B]

[/QUOTE]


We will see how cute the polls are come 2006 and 2008.



Abner

 

At the ripe old age of 43, I would glady take the place of my son if a draft if reinstated. Too bad the armed services doesn't look at experience - I don't think they would be able to find a solid engineer with 25 years of experience who can fix just about anything in an 18 year old.

(either that, or my son can go live with one of his grandmothers in either The Netherlands or BC)

 

Issue#1
As Rich Douglas pointed out, the military has a history of adjusting recruiting standards in response to a number of factors to meet staffing goals. This current change that will increase the numbers of Army/USAR/ARNG officers is but a drop in the bucket. When the current crisis passes (and it eventually will), the officer corps will contract and large numbers of commissioned officers will be returned to the various Reserve components.

The real issue is putting new recruits into combat arms and military police jobs. These young soldiers/Marines are needed in large numbers to fill out the units the military needs to deploy, not only in Iraq but also in Korea, Bosnia, etc. One possible solution may be to open up military enlistment to otherwise-qualified non-resident foreigners. If you are opposed to the war (or just an anti-Bush liberal) then this concept will probably anger you but we did this during Vietnam. At some point in the 1980s, enlistment policies were changed to require a "green card" for aliens to enlist but this was at a time when recruits were plentiful. This is certainly not a long-term solution to military manpower problems but it would have more of an impact than loosening standards for commissioning new officers.

Issue#2
IRAQ - as a nation we must find a way to get out of there as soon as possible. This is beyond a quagmire ... we aren't just losing soldiers/Marines daily but we are also losing whatever moral high ground we had by things such as the detention situation at the Gitmo. Who would have ever thought that we, the Americans, the people who held the Nazi and Imperial Japanese leaders accountable for their unlawful and inhumane actions before international courts of law, would some 60 years later not recognize the captured Al-Qaeda as "prisoners of war" because they weren't wearing uniforms at the time of capture. Further, we marginalize our own courts by holding the prisoners on a military base in Cuba, outside of their jurisdiction.

The men captured on the battlefield should be accorded POW status with all the rights that come with it. Right-wing demagogues like O'Reilly, Hannity, Rush, etc. (none of whom have ever served a day in uniform) have no problems with the manner in which the detainees have been treated but the U.S. military will have to live with the consequences of an increasingly negative world opinion.

The solution (time to antagonize the conservatives) is to go back to the UN with a different attitude. This time, we must negotiate with out allies and get the UN involved. This conflict will only begin to dissipate when the faces the Iraqi citizens see policing/occupying their country are from a true multi-national force authorized by the UN. The notion that we can train an effective Iraqi force in the next 12-18 months is unrealistic. GW must swallow his pride and use whatever influence he can muster to get the UN to take this mess off our hands. Instead of toying with Social Security or trying to initiate more tax cuts, Pres. Bush needs to mend fences with France, Germany and Russia as well as all the countries in the Third World who accept U.S. foreign aid.

 

The next step on that path seems obvious...

1) Open up recruiting centers in Guatemala City and Port-au-Prince
2) Sign up recruits under a contract promising minimal wages, with green cards for their immediate family as long as they serve until honorable discharge or else get killed.

It sounds weird but it would probably be easier to sell to the American public than a draft. I'd really rather get out of Iraq before that stage though.

 

Don't know what you are talking about