A Harvard education is really no better than an education from a state school?

I disagree with Sowell too, but you have to admit, he did attend Harvard.

 

Yes he did, but lets take a walk down the path of Thomas Sowell.

1. African American from the other side of the tracks North Carolina. (1930s)
2. Made a living at various unskilled and skilled jobs until getting drafted (1950s)
3. Got back from Korea and took classes at Howard U even though he had no high school diploma.
4. Got into Harvard due to having good test scores and recommendations from his professors. (1958)

At this point his grades were so low at Harvard during his first year he almost dropped out. He persisted as is in his character.

5. Went to Columbia based on his strengths at Harvard.
6. Now at Stanford.

Now provided we're talking about the exact same Thomas Sowell.

1. He's a great man with drive, there's no doubt there. He'd be successful anyway because he didn't fear and he had nothing to lose.
2. There's no way he'd be in the position to offer his opinion in the medium we've quoted if he hadn't gone to Harvard or a school like it.
3. I'll give him his point of reference but based on when he went there and his near failure considering he did very well at Howard... there was obviously a difference between schools.

4. Last, all of the above discounts that his experiences at Harvard are not recent and that I've not read the full article.

 

Sowell is comparing Harvard to state universities. Obviously he does have some familiarity with Harvard (as well as other elite private schools like Columbia, Chicago, and Stanford), since he was a student or teacher there. Maybe the question, though, is whether he has a realistic understanding of state universities.

As far as I can tell, Sowell never attended any public university as a student. He did teach at UCLA for several years in the 1970s. However, UCLA is not exactly a typical state school; it's one of the top campuses at one of the top state university systems in the country. Furthermore, he was at UCLA during an era when the UC system was flourishing, in terms of growth and finances.

Perhaps Sowell would be less inclined to make this comparison if his experience had been at an average state school in an era of budget cuts. Things have changed since the 1970s: today, UCLA is clearly behind schools like Harvard, Columbia, Chicago, and Stanford in terms of admissions standards and financial resources. And the "average" state school is even further behind.

 

I find this topic very interesting! I have attended only State Schools, or schools with similar reputations (all regionally accredited). I earned my Ph.D. from NCU.

My daughters were accepted at Ivy League schools. One went to UPenn but ended up transferring to a State School. Yes, I think she thought the State school was a joke in comparison, but it was because of the caliber of students there, not the opportunities for her to learn. Like me, she feels largely that education is what you make of it. She did great at her state school (but did not have a 4.0 GPA even though she worked hard in all her courses). Then she earned a perfect score in the Math section of the GRE, was accepted at Virginia Tech, where she earned her Master's and Ph.D. She now works at MIT (and was hired there before the ink was dry on her VT Ph.D.) Her husband now works at Harvard. (He went to the same State school as my daughter, and transferred to VT, but did not continue on after earning the Masters).

My second daughter was accepted at Princeton and MIT. We are a family with no connections (older daughter was NOT working at MIT at the time younger daughter was accepted there). She graduated from Princeton in 2008, and is now working on her Ph.D. at Un. of Washington in Seattle. I do agree that schools that only accept the best and the brightest are going to graduate a much higher percentage of the "best and the brightest." But that does not mean that the rest of us are unable to receive an excellent education at most any RA school (including DL schools) in the USA.

 

Wow! What a brilliant and talented family you have. Mom had to get a PhD just to keep up with the kids! My respect to all of you.

 

Nah, Ted. I like Jennifer's CIA 'way better. I'm an eater, not a bean-counter.

This has been a great thread. All Harvard comments were interesting and there were some real gems of wisdom among the sub-topics. My favourite:

"Education is what you make of it." - Suelaine

Indeed it is. Those few well-chosen words speak volumes.

Johann

 

I also don't think he was making comparisons with the likes of the UC schools (highly prestigious, top-caliber institutions), but with most state universities in the tier 3 or 4 categories (when USN&WR still had 4 tiers)...