Schumer's speech

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by nosborne48, Mar 17, 2024.

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  1. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    The U.S. abstaining on the recent Security Council vote demanding an immediate cease fire is a glaring red warning sign.
     
  2. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Agreed, we will see what alternatives Sec Blinkin proposed, as he stated that Hamas can be defeated without Raffa operation. Israeli DM had meetings in US.
    As he heading back to Israel we will see how the future unfold.
    Shift hospital some 200 terrorists were killed 400 taken priasoners.
    Fighting still on going.
     
  3. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Some see this as Hamas victory and makes it harder for Israel's fight against it and releasing hostages will be harder as it in the eyes of Hamas leaders is an achievement.
    But understanding that elections year is upon US and Michigan is an inportant state.
    Still relations US Israel are strong, a lot is happening behind the closed doors.
     
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    The issue from my perspective is that Israel is not allowing nearly sufficient food and water in. The population of Gaza is quickly approaching mass starvation. Once mass starvation is off the table then Israel can continue destroying Hamas.

    I hope that the Israeli magic Hamas detector is fixed soon because I don't see how they can possibly destroy Hamas when all the Hamas soldiers have to do is put their guns down and they look exactly like a civilian.

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/idf-war-crimes
     
  5. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Valid points.
    I think the goal is the destroy the infrastructure and control as it is controlled in West Bank.
    Insure capability to enter and fight terrorists as they do in West Bank?
    Also pressure to release the hostages.
    And destroy tunnels in Raffa and the rocket making facilities.
    I can be wrong.
    And agree on humanitarian support
     
  6. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Oh, no, it's quite deliberate. Israel is engaging in an ancient technique of war, doubtfully legal now but still used extensively. Gaza is under siege.
     
  7. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Gaza is under siege, as most in Israel would say, as it should be.
    Mosul the ISIS stronghold was also under siege, parts of it still under siege. As mentioned siege is still used in wars.
    What did they expect in Gaza?
    They are enemy "state" harboring terrorism and everything there from hospitals to schools serves dual porpoise.
    Terror against Israel is one of them.
    Siege by Egypt on one side amd Israel on the other side. And after attacking Israel amd shooting thousands of rockets on Israelis.
    Hamas and Gazans brought the suffering upon themselves.
     
  8. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Just to put this in to proportions.

    In Gaza for each terrorist about 1.5 civilian died.
    Comparing to Ukraine for example, Russian killed 10 civilians per 1 Ukranian solger.
    Iraq war and others had high #s of civilian casualties per combatant.
    So it's probably unpresidented.
    Even if one accepts Hamas provided #s 33,000. 13,000 out of it are terrorists.
    If operation will proceed to Raffa, then not all 1.5 mil civilians need to be evacuated, only some areas and Israel cab do this in 2 to 3 weeks.
    So it's estimated once the Muslim holidays end the operation will continue in Raffa late April, early May.
    4 remaining Hamas battalions will need to be destroyed.
    That's what I read on Israeli news sites , such as Israeli ch 9.
    Here are division's among politicians about how to win this war.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2024
  9. Suss

    Suss Active Member

    And then the UN concluded that there is enough evidence ("reasonable grounds") that the Israeli government has committed/is committing genocide in Gaza.

    https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976

    With such egregiousness that even a milquetoast politician like Chuck Schumer spoke out against Netanyahu.
     
  10. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The UN’s predisposition against Israel has never been more apparent – or more harmful – than it is today, but it’s nothing new. In 1975, the UN passed Resolution 3379, which falsely equated Zionism with racism and apartheid in South Africa. Critically, the resolution established the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People (CEIRPP) and the Division for Palestinian Rights (DPR). Along with the Special Committee to Investigate Israeli Practices Affecting the Human Rights of the Palestinian People and Other Arabs of the Occupied Territories (SCIIHRP), these UN institutions pursue an explicitly anti-Israel agenda. Although Resolution 3379 was revoked in 1991, the anti-Israel infrastructure it created remains.

    For decades, these entities have churned out anti-Israel propaganda that reinforces the false equivalency between Zionism and racism, which protestors around the world have repeated countless times since October 7.

    Their narrative holds that Israelis are colonial, white imperialists. At its most innocent, this claim dismisses the history of the Jewish people, who faced persecution, exile, and violence for millennia. At its worst, this falsehood encourages antisemitic hate. It denies Jews’ absolute right to live safely in their ancestral homeland – which the UN established as a Jewish state more than 75 years ago.

    This narrative leads the UN to single out Israel and hold it to a higher standard. Last year, Israel faced 14 censures. The rest of the world, including numerous autocratic regimes, received only seven total. Since the UN Human Rights Council’s (UNHRC) establishment in 2006, it has adopted 103 resolutions against Israel, more than all those leveled against North Korea, Iran, and Syria combined.

    https://hoyer.house.gov/media/press-releases/hoyer-op-ed-united-nations-historic-anti-israel-bias-emboldened-hamas
     
  11. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    There seems to be little doubt in my mind that if Netanyahu were left to his own devices mass famine would decimate the Gaza population.
     
    JBjunior and Rich Douglas like this.
  12. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    There is no doubt that if Hamas released hostages, and exiled like PLO did in Lebanon, the civilians wouldn't have suffered on each side.
    Or if instead of building terror infrastructure, they actually cared about the civilian population.
    Bill, Bibi made a mistake by allowing money transfers to Hamas, that's his miscalculation, and they should have finished Hamas long time ago.
    Raffa battalions of Hamas should have been destroyed in the first months of Gaza war, when Israel had support and US elections were not yet around the corner.
    Huge mistake, they should have defeated Hamas, Supported PA in Gaza in 2006.

    For those in the right in Israel, Bibi is standing against creation of Palestinian state on the expanse of Israel, and against the left and the countries who are trying to force Palestinian state on Israel. Be it correct view or not, it's their country and their sons and daughters are fighting in Gaza. And there are many who oppose his actions. And value greatly the support and relations with the US, some traveled to the US to express a different view and elections may change Israeli policies in the near future, it appears.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2024
  13. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    It comes down to this. Hamas, Hezbollah, The Revolutionary Guard, ISIS have no interest in sharing any land with Israel. They are not interested in a 2 state solution. They are interested only in an Islamic State that encompasses the entire region. Guess who is in the way? Israel. Once they have established this region wide Islamic State they will turn their attention to expanding it into Africa, Europe and the rest of the world. This is what we are dealing with.
    And then they will decide among themselves who are real Muslims.
     
  14. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I'm not saying that Hamas is good. Hamas is clearly a terrorist organization. Nor am I arguing that the Palestinian people are completely blameless. All that I'm really saying is that the Palestinian people do not deserve genocide. The cycle of hate should be reduced instead of being charged up further. What I am also saying is that I think Netanyahu is horrible as a leader of Israel, horrible as an ally of the USA, and likely will be convicted of crimes like bribery. Which would make him a generally horrible person.
     
    Suss, JBjunior and Rich Douglas like this.
  15. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    There is no Geneside of Palestinian People.
    There is a war that Palestinian people started against other Palestinian People i.e Israel.
     
  16. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    While it is true that genocide of Palestinians in the past is debatable, it would not be debatable if Netanyahu were left to his own devices and mass famine decimated the Gaza population. That would clearly be genocide. That is whether or not you try to play silly games with what the definition of what "Palestinian People" means. It would clearly be genocide from the UN definition of genocide.
     
  17. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    "Israel does not place any limit on the amount of aid that can enter the Gaza Strip."

    On a visit to Egypt last weekend, U.N. Secretary-General made a stop at the border crossing between the most populous Arab state and the war-stricken Gaza Strip. At the Rafah crossing, Guterres described seeing a "long line of blocked relief trucks waiting to be let into Gaza."

    Immediately after that, the Israelis accused the U.N.’s top official of "deceiving" and noted, instead, that it was the U.N. that was holding up the deliveries of life-saving aid to people who are said to be on the verge of famine inside the Palestinian enclave.

    "Since October 7th, U.N. actors and agencies have told lie after lie about Hamas atrocities and Israel's efforts to exercise its lawful right of self-defense," Anne Bayefsky director of the Touro Institute on Human Rights and the Holocaust and president of Human Rights Voices, told Fox News Digital.

    Its exactly what Hamas is aiming to active.
    The numbers they use are coming from Hamas and untrustworthy.
    .
    This narrative leads the UN to single out Israel and hold it to a higher standard. Last year, Israel faced 14 censures. The rest of the world, including numerous autocratic regimes, received only seven total. Since the UN Human Rights Council’s (UNHRC) establishment in 2006, it has adopted 103 resolutions against Israel, more than all those leveled against North Korea, Iran, and Syria combined.

    https://hoyer.house.gov/media/press-releases/hoyer-op-ed-united-nations-historic-anti-israel-bias-emboldened-hamas
     
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Preparing for an all-out war: The IDF conducted a huge surprise exercise in the Northern Command today.
    In the General Staff exercise, all the forces trained on a scenario of an all-out and multi-arena war.
    It was held in all the main headquarters, but the emphasis was on the Northern Command.
    This, against the background of the fear that Hezbollah will interpret the IDF's plans incorrectly - and think that it is next in line after Hamas
     
  19. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Fox lies so much that they had to pay three quarters of a billion dollars in defamation. The Fox rating on Media Bias Fact Check is poor. The USA is dropping parachutes with food and is planning on building a temporary seaport because why? You think that the USA is part of the international conspiracy against Israel???

    ‘Famine is setting in’: UN court orders Israel to unblock Gaza food aid
    quote:
    While Israel has claimed it is allowing aid into Gaza, senior UN, US and other international officials, as well as NGOs, have accused the country of obstructing life-saving aid to Gaza’s population of 2.3 million.

    Israel says it needs to inspect every shipment to make sure no cargo can be used to the benefit of its Hamas enemies. Even trucks travelling from Egypt, which has a peace treaty with Israel, are inspected by Israeli forces. Aid officials criticise the slow and often arbitrary inspection process, which in practice blocks aid, with trucks waiting weeks for approvals.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/28/famine-is-setting-in-icj-orders-israel-to-unblock-gaza-food-aid#:~:text=The International Court of Justice,is not blocking aid deliveries.
     
  20. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    This is all happening because of Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

    Imagine if this was happening instead?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ramadan-meal-palestinian-bedouin-invite-jewish-israelis-table-rcna144908
     

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