Bastyr University and The Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities (NWCCU)

How will DIers evaluate Bastyr University and The Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities (NWCCU)? On my Linkedin someone just like a speech that was given to some who went to Bastyr University.

 

Bastyr offers degrees in "natural healing." The wiki is quite revealing. Three quotes:

(1) "Bastyr has been criticized for studying topics that are implausible or impossible for medical effectiveness, which are considered a waste of precious federal research funds. A paranormal study funded by NCCAM and conducted at Bastyr investigated extrasensory perception and "distance healing" of HIV/AIDS patients by psychic methods. Bastyr's study was based on earlier work on the topic by Elisabeth Targ, which has been marked as scientific fraud. "

(2) "Other pseudoscientific topics researched as Bastyr include homeopathy, energy medicine and remote viewing. These topics are disproved by numerous rigorous investigations that preceded the studies conducted at Bastyr"

(3) "Bastyr also offers many non-degree continuing education courses. One course offered alleges to teach the adjustment of cranial bones to influence "craniosacral rhythms", despite this practice being implausible as such rhythms do not exist and the cranial bones in adults are fused together..."

NWCCU is USDoE recognized; it dropped its CHEA membership in 2012. It is a regional accreditor for seven states (156 schools) in the Northwest region. Lots of info on Bastyr's accreditation (and other topics) on this page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastyr_University

 

Yeah, so they've got some "alternative medicine" programs but they've also got some standard programs too. One thing you'd want to do is to check these programs to see if earning one of their degrees in, let's say Public Health or Psychology, etc. makes you eligible for certification or licensure or whatever is important in one of those fields. If the answer is no then you'd have to wonder if it's worth the time/money/effort. If the answer's yes then maybe it doesn't matter too much if another part of the school is a bit wonky.

 

It would still matter a lot, to me, for two reasons.

(1) I'm very adverse to a lot of that (supposedly) "natural" healing stuff. I've known people to die, who might have been saved by conventional medicine. Approved medicine has gotten me by admirably for 75 years, so far. Had I resorted to "natural" methods when my ticker went dysfunctional about three years back, there's zero doubt but that I'd be thoroughly, 100% dead long before now. Instead, a brilliant surgeon fixed me and my doctor assures me she's got people like me who are 95 in her clinic. I'm hoping to be another of them.

(2) If you go to a school with wonky departments, sometimes that 'wonky' reputation carries with you after graduation. Others may be prejudiced (wrongly or rightly) against the school and judge you according to their dislike for the wonky goings-on, whether you were in those classes or not.

I don't expect everyone to share that opinion. Think otherwise if you like. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

You've made a good point but I think that the whole "guilty by association" thing is a slippery slope. Lots of schools have faculty writing about all sorts of controversial things. If you don't agree with these do you write off the whole department? The whole school? I know it's not exactly the same thing but I think you know what I mean. Also, if someone does some weird research on "distance healing" and I repeat the research, it's not necessarily a bad thing if I prove the original research was flawed, came to bad conclusions or otherwise disprove the results. Finally, some prettyfamous universities have formal programs in "paranormal studies" (pretty wonky in my book) yet we don't condemn the entire school.

http://www.destinationamerica.com/thehauntist/11-universities-with-paranormal-studies/

 

Yes. Duke University comes to mind. They were pioneers, from 1919 to 1984. I somehow doubt that investigating phenomena such as telepathy, etc. using scientific research principles has much potential to cause injury or death. Creating totally unscientific so-called "health practitioners" has done so. Numerous examples - some (and their "schools" of choice) discussed on this forum.

There's a difference - a big one.

 

In this school's case ("psychic healing" of HIV/AIDS) - based on previous work marked as "scientific fraud" was reinvestigated - and that was (justly, as I see it) criticized as a total waste of a lot of research grant money.

 

I don't want to put myself into the position of defending a (regionally accredited) school that I really don't know much about. However, I know that over the years there has been a LOT of bad research done at a lot of good schools and I'm not prepared to condemn an entire university because of one bad research project.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2007/jul/13/uselessresearchanexpensive

 

Bottom line is this: Bastyr University is a "naturopathic medical school", accredited by CNME. Just so you know, another CNME school is Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine in Toronto, and Naturopaths are a regulated profession in Ontario with quite wide scope of practice and right to use "Dr." title.
I believe "naturopathy" has a legitimate scope in helping relatively healthy people maintain health, by using techniques and products that have less side effects than "allopathic" medicine. Of course, these products also have less beneficial effects, and should not be used instead of regular treatment for serious conditions.
I've been to a (CCNM trained) naturopath, and got sensible advice. I also visited chiropractors, and felt legitimately better afterwards. One of them healed a low-level knee pain I had for years, using acupuncture. But then, I'm not seriously sick; I also regularly see a MD physician.

Problems ensue when alternative providers don't stay in their lane. Naturopathic profession actively pushes for "primary care physician" status, which I guess could work but not with current body of knowledge and training standards. Also, many of them push worthless practices and beliefs; I think they in many cases have to do so in order to keep practices economically viable. Out of habit, I picked out a brochure at a Chiropractor's office. Not impressed, especially with casual diss on vaccinations. Stay with the spine folks. The Naturopath sounded supportive when we said we vaccinate kids on schedule, but I think her office does stock "homeopathic flu shot alternatives" which are bull based on name alone. Things like that.

 

The Northwest Association is the regional accreditor for the northwestern United States. It accredits the University of Washington, Washington State University and schools as far distant as UNLV (Nevada is Northwest association turf.) and the University of Alaska in Fairbanks. It accredits a few schools in BC too (including Simon Fraser, Thompson Rivers and Capilano but not UBC).

Bastyr University is RA, that's what it means.

http://www.nwccu.org/

 

Regarding Bastyr University, here's the subjects it teaches:

https://bastyr.edu/academics/areas-study

I'm a bit skeptical about Acupuncture and East Asian Medicine, Ayurvedic Sciences and Naturopathic Medicine. That being said, the first two have long histories in their places of origin, extensive literatures and all of them are legal most places in the US (and Canada most likely). Bastyr seems to have the necessary specialized accreditations to qualify its graduates for licenses.

https://bastyr.edu/about/accreditation-compliance

There are other RA schools that teach these things. The 'liberal' in me (in the 'classical liberal' sense) says that these options should be available to people who want them and that it's the patient's choice.

I don't even see any harm in it, unless it takes the place of more effective conventional therapies. I'd hope that these Bastyr practitioners are trained to determine when patients need to be referred to a conventional hospital to be evaluated for surgery or whatever. But conventional medicine can't really effectively treat many common ailments, apart from prescribing medication to suppress symptoms. An example might be chronic low-level pain. Given the opioid epidemic, I'd prefer to start out with more conservative options, ranging from meditation and medical marijuana to unconventional east Asian or Ayurvedic remedies. If they aren't effective, then I'd go to the MDs for the hard stuff. (I personally think that chiropractic is bullshit, but I have a friend who says that it's helped him a lot.)

And I have no real problem with Counseling and Health Psychology, Exercise Science, Herbal Sciences, Holistic Landscape Design, Integrated Human Biology, Midwifery, Nutrition or Public Health.

Thinking outside the box might even give Bastyr an advantage in some of these areas. I've seen more mainstream pharmacology programs researching herbal medicine and investigating what are called 'indigenous remedies' in more trendy circles. And frankly, I'd favor a Bastyr counselor over somebody with a degree in Christian or Biblical counseling, mainly because I'm not a Christian. The idea of holistic landscape design is kind of interesting too. (Zen Buddhists are famous for that. Traditional Japanese aesthetics is built around it.)

All in all, while I remain exceedingly skeptical about some (not all) of the things Bastyr teaches, I have to say that I kind of like the school.

I have no more reservations about what it's doing than I do about the fact that some of the prestige universities are teaching subjects that I perceive from my perspective as having little value, ranging from Biblical theology through queer studies and critical race theory, to feminist philosophy.

 

Yep. I'm pretty sure a Bastyr ND would have no problem getting naturopathic license in Ontario. The only problem is the degree might be too expensive for Canadians.

I agree with all of this, and have found value in alternative stuff myself. Bastyr students are indeed taught to refer pople for convential treatment. However, critics say they are not taught this well enough, and are encouraged by the whole culture around the field to severely overestimate their abilities. Here's one opinion, for a Bastyr grad and a former practicing naturopath:
https://www.naturopathicdiaries.com/should-i-go-to-naturopathic-school/

Yep, legitimate subjects all. To be fair, I'm not sure what they teach in "Integrative Biology" and "Herbal Science", and wonder if their Public Health curriculum isn't too affected by bias from the Alt Med interests - seeing how Bastyr is a major player there.

Alternative treatments are very good for exactly what you described: minor things that are not worth conventional intervention. Like a chiropractor addressing a very minor trauma that annoyed me for years, or a manual ostheopath (glorified massage therapist graduate of a completely unaccredited school, not an American DO) somehow removing a mysterious reoccurring muscle pain I had since childhood. Plus preventative health advice on things like nutrition, plus meditation for those so inclined.

Or consider a common fewer. When a child is sick, a right approach is rest, lots of fluids, and periodic temperature checks; if it's too high too long and doesn't respond to Tylenol - then go to urgent care. That's what we do. But there's this urge to "do something" more; so this is where you use natural remedies that either provide minor symptoms relief, or do absolutely nothing. I believe my wife even have the famous "seven million dollar duck" homeopathic remedy, for flu. And yes, we do flu shots every year.

Homeopathy is a curious case. I believe it has real value for "worried well" to treat things not worth treating, and mild hypochondria. Nevertheless, it is at the core pure placebo. So to use it (and help people), practitioners must not let the patient realise that preparations they sprinkle on sugar pills are all pure double-distilled water with literally nothing in it. Or it won't work. I'm not quite sure how the ethics work in this case.

 

I have no more than a casual knowledge of this topic but that's my basic opinion as well. Now pardon me while I go off to my Breatharian class.

 

Good enough for me. I do have to remove the link from my Linkedin.

 

I've known of some that definitely shouldn't have a lane! I've seen the lane lead to a jail cell as well - maybe not quite as often as I'd have liked it to. In my view, there have been some miraculous escapes . . .

As to Bastyr - This doesn't make them "bad people" or anything like that, but I guess I don't like or believe in a lot of what they teach. I don't expect others to agree with me. Among the great American freedoms is the freedom to pick your poison, I guess. And the school is RA. I was a bit surprised when I saw that , considering the offbeat nature of some of the things they teach. I used to figure that part of the reason there wasn't much accreditation of non-traditional medicine was that traditional accreditors just weren't able to deal with that kind of far-out stuff. Guess I was wrong.

Still - four years at Bastyr will set one back ~ $100K. If someone wants a degree in psychology (or anything else that can be had both at Bastyr or elsewhere) - is there a compelling reason to take it there? Shouldn't they be trying to save $75K for grad school?

 

Here's a school in Portland Oregon whose lineup of degree programs and set of accreditations looks very similar to Bastyr's. The National University of Natural Medicine. I've never heard of them before now (I was aware of Bastyr) and found them while looking at the NWCCU list.

http://nunm.edu/academics/