Woman found guilty of posing as a psychologist

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Bruce, May 5, 2007.

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  1. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    Not just private practitioners

    As someone who recently was hired into NYS civil service, I can attest to the inherent disparity.

    Here an entry level psychiatrist makes nearly three times what an entry level psychologist does.

    And no psychiatrist in my facility does any therapeutic intervention other than psychopharmocology!

    (Before the standard bearers pounce, I am aware that psychiatrists have the ability to prescribe meds that (at present) most psychologists do not. But that is worth three times the salary?)
     
  2. simon

    simon New Member

    Due to the severe and recalcitatrant psychiatric problems found in patients in state psychiatric facilities, psychopharmacology is pivotal in stabilizing severe psychopathology that will enable some patients to be engaged in psychotherapy/counseling, activities of daily living, ward activities and hopefully to eventually prepare them for discharge. Many state hospital patients are not able to participate in psychotherapy without stabilization with appropriate medications. This is why Psychiatrists are payed signficantly more than Psychologists as well as the fact that it is very difficult to attract Psychiatrists to work in state psychiatric facilities.

    Interestingly, within the context of many state psychiatric facilities, Psychologists no longer do what Psychologists are trained to do but perform generic functions and do not provide (or provide very little) individual psychotherapy but conduct generic groups! In other words, state systems such as New York are not utilizing the skill competencies of Psychologists as they should be employed but are frequently assigning them tasks that can be preformed by lesser trained personnel.
     
  3. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    Stunning

    Wow ... knew you couldn't resist commenting, but this one has me wondering just how you came to think you know something about everything!

    Way to generalize there Simon. While there is a kernel of truth to your global proclamation, guess you've never heard of those who are med NON-compliant. Then it "falls" to the psychologists to therapeutically intervene to help the patient understand the value of medication.

    Yup, 10 - 15 minute med consult versus a 45 - 60 minute therapy session (or a 4 - 10 hour assessment!)
    Sure looks likes a psychiatrist is worth three times a psychologist.
    Oh, and our program is having just as much difficulty recruiting psychologists!
    (BTW, the word is "paid.")

    And where did you obtain this gem of misinformation? In the NYS facility where I work, it is mandated that a psychologist (not a psychiatrist) run the program. In addition, mid-level practitioners (and unlicensed doctoral psychologists) run the groups. Licensed psychologists are almost all focused on conducting full battery assessments (something psychiatrists are woefully unable to do!)

    Do us all a favor, Simon.
    Actually check your facts before you blather on.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2007
  4. raristud2

    raristud2 New Member

    "In a breakthrough discovery Monday, Portland State University freshman and Psychology 101 student Steve Wenger diagnosed roommate Chad Doane with bipolar disorder." Sometimes, Chad will be in a great mood, laughing and just completely bouncing off the walls," Wenger said. But then other times, he'll be all quiet and serious, sitting at his desk reading, and if you even try to talk to him, he'll get pissed. Ever since I met him, I knew there was something kind of wrong with him, and here it is, all spelled out in this hypomania chart on page 459." http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28564 :D
     
  5. simon

    simon New Member

    PsychPhD: Wow ... knew you couldn't resist commenting, but this one has me wondering just how you came to think you know something about everything!

    SIMON: As usual Psychphd is projecting, defensive and unable to engage in a respectful and meaningful exchange of dialogue without going on the defensive. The reason? Because he does not have a factual basis for his exaggerated claims and demands that others conform to his perceptions because HE says so! And this guy is going to provide Psychotherapy! OH BROTHER.

    PsychPhd:Way to generalize there Simon. While there is a kernel of truth to your global proclamation, guess you've never heard of those who are med NON-compliant. Then it "falls" to the psychologists to therapeutically intervene to help the patient understand the value of medication.

    SIMON: The fact is that many unmedicated patients in state psychiatric facilities with chronic psychiatric disorders ARE NOT amenable to psychotherapeutic interventions, by Psychologists or any other mental health professionals and require psychotropic medication to assist them in this regard. In fact, those patients who are deemed dangerous to self or others or have behavioral management problems (ie, acting-out, threatening others, etc) FREQUENTLY necessitate being temporarily medicated against their will (I believe that it is 72 hours in NYS). Subsequently a court order is obtained to ensure their being appropriatedly medicated unless the patient and his attorney can show cause for not being medicated.

    PsychPhD: Yup, 10 - 15 minute med consult versus a 45 - 60 minute therapy session (or a 4 - 10 hour assessment!)
    Sure looks likes a psychiatrist is worth three times a psychologist.
    Oh, and our program is having just as much difficulty recruiting psychologists!
    (BTW, the word is "paid.")

    SIMON: Sorry PsychphD but regardless of your inordinate level of defensiveness and anger the fact is that the educational experience and training at any traditional or distance learning doctoral program in Psychology is by no means on par with the educational and training requirements to become a medical doctor including advanced training to become a Psychiatrist! End of story!

    PsychPhd: And where did you obtain this gem of misinformation? In the NYS facility where I work, it is mandated that a psychologist (not a psychiatrist) run the program. In addition, mid-level practitioners (and unlicensed doctoral psychologists) run the groups. Licensed psychologists are almost all focused on conducting full battery assessments (something psychiatrists are woefully unable to do!)

    SIMON: Your inordinate level of defensiveness and grandiosity results in your shortsightedeness and proclivity not to see the entire picture. In your words, "In the facility where I work...." demonstrates your egocentricity because in fact in a number of other state psychiatric facilities, including NYS, Psychologists are performing tasks other than psychological testing and are expected to run groups rather than spend time providing individual psychotherapy! Due to inordinate case loads of mental health professionals in a number of psyhiatric facilities the individual "psychotherapy" provided does not amount to anything more than a few minutes with each patient, which does not meet the definition of psychotherapy. In fact there was a recent grievance regarding this issue in a NYS facility whereby a number of mental health professionals, including Psychologists, contested managements expectation to provide services outside of their job performance functions.

    PsychPhd: Do us all a favor, Simon.
    Actually check your facts before you blather on.

    SIMON: Excellent suggestion but unfortunately it should be self-directed and not externalized to another poster.
     
  6. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    No use in continuing

    As it seems the moderators of this discussion believe that it is more important to let people like Simon perpetuate their ad hominem, red herring, flat out incorrect tirades than preserve this venue as one that provides legitimate information about education and professions, there really is no reason to continue to participate.

    Used to be that people who just scribbled a stream of consciousness got a failing grade. Here it seems they are encouraged to spread misinformation.

    What's the point of sharing actual first hand experiences borne of years of experience and education when one has to endure the talk radio style blovation of the misinformed and narrowminded?

    I'll be focusing my attentions on actually DOING the work instead of wasting my time with those sitting on the sidelines criticizing the players.
     
  7. simon

    simon New Member

    Fellow posters,

    As can be discerned above when confronted with facts this poster does not engage in honest, straightforward dialogue BUT yells "FOUL" as well as using other manipulative ploys (ie, attacking another poster but then egocentrically believing that he is immune to a response) to prevent his being exposed as not knowing what he is talking about regarding the subject in question! In fact, he got caught, tagged, once again, and instead of displaying integrity and admitting that he was incorrect assumes a defensive and haughty posture, which is his modus operandi, and pretends indifference. What a sham. And to think that this guy has power over the psychological lives of others. Oh brother!

    BTW fellow posters I spoke with two Psychologists this evening who work within NYS Psychiatric facilities and they totally agreed that they do not perform individual psychotherapy or psychological testing and instead run groups! They both agreed that the vast majority of patients within their facilities with psychotic disorder are totally unresponsive to psychotherapy UNLESS initially stabilized on psychotropic medication. If PsychPhD has the courage I will arrange for him to speak with these Psychologists and then we shall discuss how off he is regarding the misinformation he is presenting on this forum as HIS fact!.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2007
  8. raristud2

    raristud2 New Member

    No one can verify the information posted in this thread or anywhere in this forum for that matter. The only thing you can do is provide a link to the information posted . Even links to websites should be scrutinized and may contain misinformation. Hence the quote below by Sir Francis Bacon. The majority of degreeinfo members are anonymous. Anyone can claim to be experts in a field and say they graduated from said university and have many years of experience. If mental health is a topic of interest, take a class that discusses the helping professions and/or talk with a licensed practitioner. It is a good idea to provide a link to an informative resource that compliments your post. For example, a link to a journal article.

    For anyone who has seeks information about Psychiatry, the US National Institutes of Health has a list of journal articles that may peek your interest.

    http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/about/openftlist.html



    "Read not to contradict and confute, nor to believe and take for granted, but to weigh and consider." Sir Francis Bacon

    http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/library.htm

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sir_Francis_Bacon
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2007
  9. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    Fair point, and yet ...

    This is, of course, absolutely true. Still, it has also been demonstrated that a fair number of talk show hosts/commentators absolutely fabricate their "facts," still large numbers of people take those opinions as factually based gospel. I dare say the same happens here.

    While one cannot guarantee the factuality or legitimacy of information posted here, it is clear when one presents opinion in the form of ad hominem attacks, red herring arguments, or any number of intellectually fallacious manners.

    As someone who came here seeking to learn from others (and occasionally share my own experiences), it is deeply distressing that those employing such intellectually inappropriate methods aren't simply challenged. I have been personally and professionally attacked by "Simon" ad infinitum. I have no idea what his/her motivation is but s/he seems to have serious issues about distance learning and mental health providing -- two area which already have ample amounts of misinformation and mythology swirling about -- and two areas where I do actually have years of experience.

    [And to respond to Simon's "I spoke to two NYS state psychologists" comment -- it is important to ascertain the civil service rank of these "psychologists." NYS in 2005 was the last state in the nation to protect the title "psychologist" as a doctorally trained professional. It exempted state workers from this restriction, so there are state employees using the title "psychologist I or II" who are not trained to the level many people would expect.

    As I said in my post, mid-level practitioners (non-doctorally trained; Psychologist I, II, social workers) and unlicensed (doctorally trained, but completing their final year of supervised practice; Associate Psychologists) psychologists DO facilitate groups at my NY state facility. However, the licensed psychologists (doctorally trained and licensed for independent practice) do NOT do groups and almost always are reserved for evaluations/assessments.

    Finally, not all groups are created equal. Educational groups, where the object is to present information about a specific topic (e.g. life skills, anger management, symptom management) are not therapy and do not require a psychologist (or similarly trained professional) to run them. On the other hand, group therapy has as its goal the modifying of behavior and those groups should be and are run by advanced level mental health practitioners.

    The insinuation that "just running groups" is somehow an underutilization of psychologists is misinformed and needlessly inflamatory.]
     
  10. simon

    simon New Member

    PsychPhD: While one cannot guarantee the factuality or legitimacy of information posted here, it is clear when one presents opinion in the form of ad hominem attacks, red herring arguments, or any number of intellectually fallacious manners.

    SIMON: Unfortunately, this poster does not believe he is held to the same standard he expects from others. In fact he is one of the primary transgressors of ad hominem, red herring arguments and hyper-intellectualized fluff passing off as fact!

    PsychPhd: As someone who came here seeking to learn from others (and occasionally share my own experiences), it is deeply distressing that those employing such intellectually inappropriate methods aren't simply challenged. I have been personally and professionally attacked by "Simon" ad infinitum. I have no idea what his/her motivation is but s/he seems to have serious issues about distance learning and mental health providing -- two area which already have ample amounts of misinformation and mythology swirling about -- and two areas where I do actually have years of experience.

    SIMON: "Learn from others"? Give us a break! He has all the answers (RIGHT!) and in a condescending and arrogant manner merely goes through the motions of being open and receptive when in fact he does not believe that other posters are on his level intellectually or personally.

    BTW, one only has to review PsychPhd's provocative and flaming retort to my initial response in this thread to discern that he is speaking of himself regarding being professionally attacked by "Simon". However, he does not believe that he is held to the same standard of conduct that he imposes on others. In short, he can attack posters, be hostile and condescending but others have to treat him as if he is special and above the "law". He also tends to engage in fabrications in an attempt to negate others with opposing opinions as when he notes the untruthful remark above " s/he (Simon) seems to have serious issues about distance learning and mental health" BUT then goes on too engage in self praise as the all knowing, grandiose king of this forum. Imagine, this guy has power over the psychological lives of others! Oh brother!

    PsychPhd: [And to respond to Simon's "I spoke to two NYS state psychologists" comment -- it is important to ascertain the civil service rank of these "psychologists." NYS in 2005 was the last state in the nation to protect the title "psychologist" as a doctorally trained professional. It exempted state workers from this restriction, so there are state employees using the title "psychologist I or II" who are not trained to the level many people would expect.

    SIMON: Unfortunately the reality that exists for Psychologists in the NYS system conflicts with Psychphd's statement above and only reveals his lack of global understanding as to the current state of utilization of Psychologists in the NYS system.

    Psychphd: As I said in my post, mid-level practitioners (non-doctorally trained; Psychologist I, II, social workers) and unlicensed (doctorally trained, but completing their final year of supervised practice; Associate Psychologists) psychologists DO facilitate groups at my NY state facility. However, the licensed psychologists (doctorally trained and licensed for independent practice) do NOT do groups and almost always are reserved for evaluations/assessments.

    SIMON: PsychPhd is incorrect in his globalized assertions!. In fact there are "licensed Psychologists (doctorally trained and licensed for independent practice)" who DO GROUPS and ARE NOT performing "evaluations/assessements" or INDIVIDUAL PSYCHOTHERAPY (we are not talking about touching base with clients for a few minutes) in NYS Psychiatric facilities. I offered tha Psychphd speak anonymously with Psychologists from these facilities to set the record straight but as can be discerned he evades the offer and continues to present misinformation although he admits he is new to the state system. And this guy is going to assist others in changing their lives? Oh brother!

    Psychphd: Finally, not all groups are created equal. Educational groups, where the object is to present information about a specific topic (e.g. life skills, anger management, symptom management) are not therapy and do not require a psychologist (or similarly trained professional) to run them. On the other hand, group therapy has as its goal the modifying of behavior and those groups should be and are run by advanced level mental health practitioners.

    SIMON: Poor Psychphd is attempting to bolster his professional worth with the hype noted above because the fact is that in a number of NYS Psychiatric centers Psychologists AT ALL LEVELS (with the exception of those in administrative positions) ARE NOT running actual group therapy and are mere cogs in the wheel in an impersonal system whose primary focus is to meet state and federal standards and regulations (including JCAHO, HCFA, etc) for patient care, no more, no less. In fact, the majority of state psychiatric patients can benefit from certain groups that focus on ADL and symptom management BUT are not amenable to substantive group psychotherapy.

    Psychphd: The insinuation that "just running groups" is somehw an underutilization of psychologists is misinformed and needlessly inflamatory.

    SIMON: This guy will say anything to boster his self-importance no matter how far it strays from the facts as when he distorts what I have stated above. The bottomline is that contrary to Psychphds defensiveness and envy of the status and earning power of Psychiatrists, without them the majority of inpatient psychiatric patients in state psychiatric facilities would never be appropriately managed psychiatrically or discharged due to a lack of psychiatric stabilization regardless of how hard Psychphd attempts to disingeniously prove that HIS psychotherapy will cure these patients! What a joke.

    Futhermore, he makes outlandish and inaccurate global assertions based on HIS reality such as his contention regarding Psychologists' conducting group therapy in state psychiatric facilities which in fact does not occur (at least in the manner he is suggesting). However, the bottomline is that whenever Psychphd is ready I will arrange for him to speak ANONYMOUSLY with very experienced LICENSED, DOCTORAL LEVEL PSYCHOLOGISTS at NYS facilities who will promptly set the record straight and put an end to Psychphd's reign of misinformation on this forum. Don't hold your breath folks because Psychphd is not interested in setting the record straight BUT in perpetuating his anonymous and pompous status on this board without substance.
     
  11. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Gyawd, I just love watching my buddies simon and PsychPhD psychoanalyze each other!
     
  12. simon

    simon New Member

    Teddy me lad, I am not psychoanalyzing anyone but merely pointing out that this poster is making a number of assertions throughout this thread that are not factual. He fails to discuss issues in a respectful and meaningful manner but immediately attempts to evade or distract from any attempts to correct his misinformation resulting in sustaining a belief that he reigns supreme, when in actuality his credibility is being seriously questioned. It is really too bad because this type of stonewalling and manipulation is antithetical to the purpose of this forum which is to discuss issues, even in the face of divergent opinions, with the goal of clarifying the facts and dismissing the fictions. Unfortunately this outcome will never be a possiblity and those posters who are interested in the content of this and other threads are the ones who will be at a loss.
     
  13. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    Thanks a lot Ted

    Thanks Ted, for ignoring the content of my post, and encouraging the ad hominem baiting in simon's.

    Why would you encourage a Rush Limbaugh/Bill O'Reilley wannabe?

    And, for the record, I have no desire to "psychoanalyze" Simon (there is no challenge there!). All I have ever tried to do is illustrate the inherent flaws and lack of integrity in his emotional rhetoric, only to be responded to with "Nah-uh, you were meaner than I was!"

    I can appreciate that such watch such train wreck logic play out can be mildly entertaining, if it wasn't so dangerous. As I've said before, I'd be more than willing to just ignore the Simons of the world and let them rant on. However, there is the possibility that some people will erroneously interpret their emotional passion for actual information. There is enough misinformation out there about distance learning and psychology (which apparently are Simon's two favorite rant topics). Again, I have NO idea what Simon's background is, or why s/he has such a jones for spewing vitriol over these two topics but -- as an online program graduate (now instructor) and a practicing mental health clinician -- these topics are important to me and I see firsthand how Simon-esque misinformation and mythology does real harm by impacting the perceptions of others.

    Ted, my sense of you has been that you valued the sharing of honest and legitimate information. Your flip comment here is disappointingly out of character.
     
  14. simon

    simon New Member

    Teddy, this is a very straightforward matter to resolve as follows.

    Overall, did Psychphd prove ANY of his assertions regarding this topic that he presented as fact to the posters of this forum? For instance his claim that severely impaired psychiatric patients in state psychiatric centers are amenable to psychotherapy without initially being stabilized on psychotropic medication. Has he proved this claim? In fact he did'nt and can't because his generalized contention is absolutely inaccurate! What about his general claim that Psychologists in NYS psychiatric facilities are providing individual psychotherapy and running substantive group therapy with severely impaired psychiatric patients? There is not a kernel of fact to such assertions but did Psychphd even bother to present any evidence to support his claims? What about his generalization that Psychologists are spending a great deal of time administering psychometric testing? Perhaps in certain facilities but this is not a primary job function of many Psychologists in NYS Psychiatric Centers.

    Let us not forget his ranting, whining, and sour graping about Psychiatists earning too much money because Psychphd believes that his salary should be on par with theirs! Does he acknowledge that without Psychiatrists in state psychiatric institutions the majority of psychiatric patients with severe mental illness would not be stabilized and many would not be able to be discharged and mainstreamed into society? Does he show any awareness that perhaps going through rigorous medical school training including residences and fellowships is just a little, little, little, little more demanding than his degree program (and a he_l of alot more expensive. A recent study showed that many medical doctors owe anywhere form 200,000-500,000 dollars in school debts that takes an average of ten years to pay back!)

    So in spite of Psychphd's protestations, self-aggrandizing assertions and spurious claims that "Simon" is not his best friend and out to undermine him (he uses this ploy to distract fellow posters from his inability to prove any of his assertions as noted above) the bottomline is that this poster has failed to demonstrate that any of his claims have any validity! In lieu of substantive responses he merely reiterates that he is an online instructor and a mental health practitioner with many years of experience and expects the intelligent posters of this forum to accept this in place of the facts! I don't think so Teddy.
     
  15. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Sorry if I actuaaly encouraged simon and yeah, you are right, the above-mentioned comment was a bit flip. Amusing as a train wreck in progress though it might be, the most amusing thing about watching simon psychoanalyze others is when he accuses others of "being defensive."
     
  16. simon

    simon New Member


    Teddy me pal, I call it as I see it!

    BTW, if you have ANY insights or facts, other than editoralizing and roiling, that can positively add to the discussion above or show inaccuracies as to the points I made above (or substantiate PsychPhds assertions that he presented as fact) I am certain that other posters would enjoy hearing it. We are waiting nondefensive one:rolleyes:.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2007
  17. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    You all be the judge ...

    From Ken Pope's exquisitely informative website, explanations of logical fallacies (http://kspope.com/fallacies/fallacies.php):

    Simon's contribution: Let us not forget his ranting, whining, and sour graping about Psychiatists earning too much money because Psychphd believes that his salary should be on par with theirs!

    (Actually, I said that paying a psychiatrist THREE times as much seemed inappropriate. I acknowledged that our training and skills sets are different and that, at present, most psychologists cannot provide prescriptions. However, with 6 years of graduate school, a year long externship, a year long internship, and a year of supervised practice before receiving an independent practice license, I do not feel it is extraordinary to expect a starting psychologist to make more than a third the salary of a starting psychiatrist.)

    Simon's contribution: What about his generalization that Psychologists are spending a great deal of time administering psychometric testing? Perhaps in certain facilities but this is not a primary job function of many Psychologists in NYS Psychiatric Centers.

    (Silly me, apparently actually witnessing this occur and personally providing this service is not adequate "evidence" to Simon.)

    Simon's contribution: What about his general claim that Psychologists in NYS psychiatric facilities are providing individual psychotherapy and running substantive group therapy with severely impaired psychiatric patients? There is not a kernel of fact to such assertions but did Psychphd even bother to present any evidence to support his claims?

    (Again, apparently actually witnessing this occur and personally providing this service is not adequate "evidence" to Simon.)

    Simon's contribution: So in spite of Psychphd's protestations, self-aggrandizing assertions and spurious claims that "Simon" is not his best friend and out to undermine him (he uses this ploy to distract fellow posters from his inability to prove any of his assertions as noted above) the bottomline is that this poster has failed to demonstrate that any of his claims have any validity! In lieu of substantive responses he merely reiterates that he is an online instructor and a mental health practitioner with many years of experience and expects the intelligent posters of this forum to accept this in place of the facts!

    (See below)

    Simon's contribution: Overall, did Psychphd prove ANY of his assertions regarding this topic that he presented as fact to the posters of this forum? For instance his claim that severely impaired psychiatric patients in state psychiatric centers are amenable to psychotherapy without initially being stabilized on psychotropic medication. Has he proved this claim? In fact he did'nt and can't because his generalized contention is absolutely inaccurate!

    -----
    I am done playing cat-and-mouse with Simon. I submit this so that others might be able to more appropriately identify the tactics he employs here.

    Yes -- especially given the sort of venom and petty character assassinations prevalent on this forum -- I am asking participants to take on faith that I have, in fact, earned a PhD in clinical psychology and currently teach psychology online and work as a psychologist at a NYS facility.

    Simon, on the other hand, has provided absolutely no information as to the source of his expertise other than his vast knowledge of apparently everything.

    I apologize for only relying on actual first hand experience and/or published peer-reviewed research to support my assertions.
     
  18. simon

    simon New Member

    PsychPhd: Simon's contribution[/b]: Let us not forget his ranting, whining, and sour graping about Psychiatists earning too much money because Psychphd believes that his salary should be on par with theirs!

    (Actually, I said that paying a psychiatrist THREE times as much seemed inappropriate. I acknowledged that our training and skills sets are different and that, at present, most psychologists cannot provide prescriptions. However, with 6 years of graduate school, a year long externship, a year long internship, and a year of supervised practice before receiving an independent practice license, I do not feel it is extraordinary to expect a starting psychologist to make more than a third the salary of a starting psychiatrist.)

    SIMON: "Actually" the above is not what PsychPhd originally stated. It is an attempt to positively reframe his original comparison between his biased claims as to what a Psychiatrist does with his positively overinflated presentation of what Psychologists do. In fact this comparison was inundated with sarcasm, hostility and most importantly a gross distortion of what the majority of Psychologists in NYS Psychiatric Facilities do on a daily basis. as noted below:

    " Yup, 10-15 minute med consult versus 45-60 minute therapy sessions (or a 4-10 hour assessment".

    In addition, in the NYS psychiatric system there is insufficient time for psychologists to spend so many hours of their time as PsychPhd claims due to heavy case loads. In no way do they spend 45-60 minute therapy sessions per patient and/or 4-10 hours of assessment per case. So his comparison is rediculous and inaccurate and if anyone gives a hoot I will speak with them by phone to substantiate this fact.

    PsychPhd: Simon's contribution: What about his generalization that Psychologists are spending a great deal of time administering psychometric testing? Perhaps in certain facilities but this is not a primary job function of many Psychologists in NYS Psychiatric Centers.

    (Silly me, apparently actually witnessing this occur and personally providing this service is not adequate "evidence" to Simon.)

    SIMON: Is that so? In PsychPhd's own words he notes "As someone who recently was hired into the NYS Civil Service...". So now after being hired "recently" he had sufficient time to "witness" ALL Psychologists conducting psychological testing in ALL NYS psychiatric facilities. Once again his statement is inaccurate for the vast majority of NYS Psych facilities and it anyone is truly interested I will gladly accomodate them by phone and explain how I know his assertion to be inaccurate.

    PsychPhd:Simon's contribution: What about his general claim that Psychologists in NYS psychiatric facilities are providing individual psychotherapy and running substantive group therapy with severely impaired psychiatric patients? There is not a kernel of fact to such assertions but did Psychphd even bother to present any evidence to support his claims?

    (Again, apparently actually witnessing this occur and personally providing this service is not adequate "evidence" to Simon.)

    SIMON: Once again PsychPhd is attempting to aggrandize his self importance because it is a generally well known fact amongst mental heatlh professionals that the level and depth of psychotherapeutic intervention that he claims is not possible with marginal functioning and severely impaired state psychiatric patients as well as an inefficacious intervention in the vast majority of cases. In addition the extent of therapy and testing he claims does not take place in NYS psychiatric facilities. In his own words he was "recently hired into NYS Civil Service" but now claims that ALL psychologists in NYS Psychiatric Centers are providing individual psychotherapy and running substantive group therapy with severely impaired psychiatric patients which is absurd! I will provide ample proof of my statements in private to any serious poster who wishes to know the facts.

    PsychPhd: Simon's contribution: So in spite of Psychphd's protestations, self-aggrandizing assertions and spurious claims that "Simon" is not his best friend and out to undermine him (he uses this ploy to distract fellow posters from his inability to prove any of his assertions as noted above) the bottomline is that this poster has failed to demonstrate that any of his claims have any validity! In lieu of substantive responses he merely reiterates that he is an online instructor and a mental health practitioner with many years of experience and expects the intelligent posters of this forum to accept this in place of the facts!

    (See below)

    Simon's contribution: Overall, did Psychphd prove ANY of his assertions regarding this topic that he presented as fact to the posters of this forum? For instance his claim that severely impaired psychiatric patients in state psychiatric centers are amenable to psychotherapy without initially being stabilized on psychotropic medication. Has he proved this claim? In fact he did'nt and can't because his generalized contention is absolutely inaccurate!

    I am done playing cat-and-mouse with Simon. I submit this so that others might be able to more appropriately identify the tactics he employs here.

    Yes -- especially given the sort of venom and petty character assassinations prevalent on this forum -- I am asking participants to take on faith that I have, in fact, earned a PhD in clinical psychology and currently teach psychology online and work as a psychologist at a NYS facility.

    SIMON: I could'nt care if PsychPhd had five doctorates and taught five courses online because this has absolutely nothing to do with proving that the information he is providng above is accurate, which in fact it is not. We already know that PsychPhd was only hired recently in the NYS Civil Service so he has clearly contradicted himself because he obviously does not have significant experience in this system to make such absolute statements BUT yet is attempting to cram down the throats of posters that he is the quintessential expert of the NYS Psychiatric system.

    PsychPhd: Simon, on the other hand, has provided absolutely no information as to the source of his expertise other than his vast knowledge of apparently everything.

    SIMON: As we know, PsychPhd did not accept my previous offer to arrange for him to speak anonymously with a highly experienced senior Psychologist in the NYS Civil Service psychiatric facility. We all know the reason why he evades this conversation because the results will clearly contradict just about everything he has stated on this thread. However, I will offer to speak anonymously with any poster on this board that will clearly provide my background and capacity in challenging these outrageous and erroneous assertions that are being presented as fact by PsychPhd.

    PsychPhd: I apologize for only relying on actual first hand experience and/or published peer-reviewed research to support my assertions.

    SIMON: "Recently hired" = "actual first hand experience". Is that so? This guy's credibility on this forum is hotly contested by these grossly misleading assertions that fly in the face of the facts regardless of his attempts at providing fluff in lieu of facts.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2007
  19. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    Do tell ...

    You are the only one "hotly contesting" my credibility as I would venture a guess most intelligent people here would prefer to hear from someone actually IN the profession (even a recently hired one) than someone who continues to evade the request to provide ANY validation of your own source of expertise.

    By all means, Simon, put me in touch with your ONE source. I do so hope this person -- assuming of course s/he actually does exist -- is at MY facility! (Regardless, if this person has one ounce of integrity, I would anticipate that s/he will be seriously offended at your using him/her to perpetuate your narrowminded, underinformed opinions of the mental health profession!)

    So please, cough up your source.

    [Oh, and for the record, while I may be new to the NYS state system, I have worked in the mental health field (at various levels) for over ten years, recently spending six years in graduate study, a year in pre-doctoral field work at a federal prison, and a year of pre-doctoral internship at a state prison. I'm sorry, what was your background again?]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2007
  20. simon

    simon New Member

    SIMON: The issue in question has nothing to do with whether this "source" is at your facility BUT in your own words that you are a neophyte in this system but are attempting to come across as a Chief Psychologist with years of experience in this system. If you wish I can have this person communicate with you by phone or if you wish I will do so directly with you by phone or private e-mail. Let me know your pleasure through private e-mail.

    BTW, I realize that you need to fall back on what you believe is your substantive experience rather than on your crediblity as a fellow poster. I have never used my professional background to impress or influence the outcome of any discussion on this forum because I don't need any credentials or vast experience to prove my points and either do any of my colleagues. So get off your high horse and get real fella! I'm not impressed in the least.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2007

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