Why an online degree may not be a good investment

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by decimon, Feb 27, 2017.

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  1. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Market Watch
    Jillian Berman
    Feb. 27, 2017

    Online education has been hailed by some politicians and higher education experts as an innovation with the potential to deliver courses and degrees to students who might not otherwise attend college at a fraction of the typical cost.

    But a new study is challenging that notion with evidence that, for most students, online education doesn’t typically pay off.

    Though students who pursue an exclusively or substantially online education usually see their earnings go up following their efforts, it’s typically not enough to cover the amount they spent on tuition and fees, according to a working paper by Stanford University economist, Caroline Hoxby, distributed by the National Bureau of Economic Research this week. What’s more, the earnings increase is rarely enough to recoup the cost society pays — in the form of federal student loans — to send them to school, the study found.

    More... Why an online degree may not be a good investment - MarketWatch
     
  2. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    Doesn't matter. Full speed ahead.
     
  3. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I haven't read it all in detail but there would appear to be a couple of holes in this research.
     
  4. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    The "fraction of the cost part" is a big issue. I've very seldom come across a school that had an online program cheaper than the ground-based version. In fact, with so many schools charging increased rates for out of state students I have a hard time believing most online programs are any less expensive.
     
  5. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    That's a good point. Here are two regionally accredited anomalies:

    Franciscan University of Steubenville: Theology MA:
    $18,000 online costs
    ($500 per credit x 36 credits)
    $24,000 on-campus ($685 per credit x 36 credit)
    (Source)

    Franciscan is anomalous because the online tuition is actually cheaper than the in-resident tuition -- but it's still very expensive overall.

    Holy Apostles College & Seminary: Theology MA:
    $11,500 online costs
    ($320 per credit x 36 credits)
    $11,500 on-campus ($320 per credit x 36 credits)
    (Source and Explanation for the low tuition)

    Holy Cross is anomalous because it's overall tuition is remarkably inexpensive.

    Both are conservative.
     
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    "But the paper, which is based on Internal Revenue Service data of Americans who attended exclusively or substantially online colleges between 1999 and 2014, raises questions about whether these students are being served well."

    No, it raises questions about the definition of "online education" used both by the author of the Stanford paper and this MarketWatch article, since given that timeframe that's a definition almost guaranteed to produce those sorts of results.

    I really wish journalists who write for general interest publications actually knew their subject material. But since they really don't, stick with the Chronicle, InsideHigherEd, University World News, and PIE.
     
  7. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    My husband's university, which I'll just abbreviate as jwu (add .edu if you're interested) has online graduate programs. When he started in 2012, they were all F2F. Now, here we are finishing the 2016-2017 school year, and their enrollment meeting reported a total graduate enrollment of something like 580 students, with 30 in the F2F program. They are canning all F2F options effective next year. All DL from here on out. And here's something fun: my husband is earning his MBA in the same program, he's on about class #8. So far, 100% of his "professors" have been adjunct. We don't care- check the box.
     
  8. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    +1 and I thought we were getting a "like" button?
     
  9. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    Josie Wales University?

    Shoot.
     
  10. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    That is amazing and it reflects two strong trends:
    1. A rapidly changing educational market, switching from f2f to 100% online.
    2. A rapidly changing job market i.e.
    (a) robotics and computers are replacing human jobs (think kiosks, factory robots, online banking, etc)
    (b) service oriented jobs are growing (health care, food service, nail and foot massages, etc).
    (c) traditional B&M retail jobs are rapidly disappearing and are replaced by online shopping
    (d) traditional high paying "secure" jobs continue to rapidly disappear

    QUESTIONS (think long term):
    1. Will online education meet the demands of a rapidly changing job market?
    2. Will online education meet the employment dreams and expectations of paying students?
    3. Will the United States end up with a bunch of over-educated college graduates who can't get decent paying jobs?
     
  11. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    Online education may change from being degree factories to being skills factories. Teaching needed skills at a reasonable price would be an excellent use of online learning.
     
  12. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

     
  13. nyvrem

    nyvrem Active Member

    oh wow ~ Holy Apostles College offers an online PhD
     
  14. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    got any more info on that?
     
  15. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Johnson & Wales University?
     
  16. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Here is a link to it:
    Degree Programs | Holy Apostles College & Seminary
    (scroll down to "online doctoral programs")

    Here are direct links:

    Catholic University of Lublin Doctorate in Philosophy Program (75% online):
    Doctorate in Philosophy | Holy Apostles College & Seminary

    Abat Oliba University Doctor in Humanities Program:
    Doctorate in Humanities Program | Holy Apostles College & Seminary

    It looks like Holy Apostles might just be feeding students into those programs? Also, not sure how the doctoral accreditation works or who it falls under. The cost for both doctorates is dirt cheap!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2017
  17. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    ah, but a "fraction of the cost" to whom?
     
  18. TomE

    TomE New Member

    From the article:

    Isn't this the same conclusion that one could come to with a traditional B&M university? Some traditional universities provide lousy ROI just like some primarily or totally online programs/universities do. Why added criticism for online programs?
     
  19. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    I've never heard of Abat Oliba University, so I can't comment on it.

    The fact that Catholic University of Lublin offers a (largely) DL English-language doctorate in philosophy is big news. KUL is a high profile university in the Polish context, known especially for its philosophy department. Part of KUL's distinctiveness is that it was the only private university east of the 'iron curtain' during the communist years, so by default it became the place to study non-marxist philosophy. That alone arguably makes it the best philosophy department in all of eastern Europe.

    Philosophy | Study Philosophy in English - www.philosophy.kul.pl

    Karol Wojtyla taught ethics there for something like 20 years before he became better known as Pope John Paul II. KUL has subsequently been renamed the 'John Paul II Catholic University of Lublin' in his honor.

    It looks to me like KUL has prerequisites for admission into its philosophy doctoral program. Holy Apostles seems to offer courses that meet those prerequisites for those (particularly theology graduates) that don't already have them. I don't think that Holy Apostles grants the doctoral degree. (I'd rather have a KUL degree anyway, it's a more prominent program in the philosophy world.)

    (For those worried about accreditation, KUL is accredited by the Polish Accreditation Committee, established by legislative act. I believe that all Polish universities must be accredited by the Committee in order to legally operate.)

    PKA - Polish Accreditation Committee - ECApedia
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2017
  20. nyvrem

    nyvrem Active Member

    so did i discover a gem

    :laugh2:
     

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