Which Doctorate has the best Utility?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by me again, Sep 15, 2002.

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Which Doctorate has the most Utility in the Marketplace?

  1. Criminal Justice

    1 vote(s)
    10.0%
  2. Education

    3 vote(s)
    30.0%
  3. Other

    6 vote(s)
    60.0%
  1. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    This may be perceived as a stupid question because of all the potential variables, but it is unique to the circumstances in my life. Consequently, I will ask this broadband question anyways (even though you don’t know all the facts of the case). Let me set-up the parameters of the question before I ask it:
    • I’m a veteran cop with 14 years experience with a BS in business management. I should complete a MA in criminal justice administration in August of 2003. The future may potentially hold one of four options:
    • Running for county commissioner.
    • Teaching at a community college (not interested in the state university).
    • Staying in law enforcement.
    • The unknown. :eek:
    Subsequent to the above, what kind of a doctoral degree has the most utility in the marketplace? A doctorate in:
    • Criminal Justice
    • Education
    • Other
    Anecdotal opinions welcomed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2002
  2. Nosborne

    Nosborne New Member

    The Juris Doctor would be more useful to you than either of the listed degrees in that it qualifies the holder to practice a profession, seek certain public offices connected with the criminal justice system and open ONLY to lawyers, and teach at the university level.

    No, I know the JD isn't a "real" doctorate, but there's precious little you CAN'T do with a JD that you CAN do with a CJ PhD!

    Plus, it's easier to get than a PhD, in part because it is a "cut and dried" process with a minimum of unnecessary delay and politics.

    Nosborne, JD
     
  3. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Me? A lawyer? [​IMG] [​IMG]
    That is why I was considering a doctorate in education instead of criminal justice. It seems to have more utility.
     
  4. Nosborne

    Nosborne New Member

    If you don't like lawyers, be a different KIND of lawyer! All the stuff I said about the JD is still true; it will serve you well almost no matter WHAT you decide to do!

    Nosborne, JD
    (A very different kind of lawyer. Well, maybe not all THAT different!)
     
  5. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Ambivilent

    Of course I like lawyers. Who in their right mind would not like lawyers? ;)

    In all seriousness, lawyers are just ordinary Joes who are trying to make a buck. I can’t knock them for that. As fellow members of the human race, they run the entire spectrum of human behaviors (hopefully mostly good behaviors). .

    Uhm… < cough > … It’s not my calling to acquire a JD, though that degree has a high degree of suitability for many people.

    Although Stetson’s University is just down the street…
     
  6. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    There is no right or wrong answer....there are so many variables that it's impossible to say. While a law degree might be useful in running for public office (since politician seems to be the occupation of choice for failed lawyers), none of your scenarios require anything past a Master's degree.

    However.....while teaching CJ at the community college level requires only a Master's, the candidate with the Ph.D. will beat you (and the guy with the law degree) out for the job every time.

    It seems to me that your pursuit of a doctorate would be for personal fufillment, in which case go with your interests.


    Bruce
     
  7. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    That's a good point. My interest is definately CJ because it's our field of expertise. However, if I'm only going to get it for "personal enrichment," it is a rather expensive way to be fulfilled. Argosy cost under 30k and I'm guessing that Capella will be around 35-45k(?).
     
  8. Vinipink

    Vinipink Accounting Monster



    Capella about 35-45k!

    Perhaps, I doubt it, It may be little be higher! Assuming they charge $500 per credit, (I think It is higher) they have 120 credits
    that is about $60k in tuition alone. 8-D.

    Have you look into Tauro University International?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2002
  9. An doctoral degree in either area might enhance your prospects at a community college, but probably wouldn't be necessary. I doubt that a doctoral degree would be much of a factor in a county election or in a continued law enforcement career.

    Given that you still have a year to complete your MA, I'd wait. Investigate options, sure, but don't invest that much time in it and don't make a definite decision. You might even want to take a year off from studies before you enroll in another program. By that time, there may be new programs to investigate.
     
  10. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    I was a full-tme faculty member and on many hiring boards at a California Community College for several years. When we had an opening in the Administration of Justice program, 90 candidates applied, all with good experience. In this case the doctorate was a definate factor in the selection of the final candidate (as well as his years of experience at several levels of law enforcement and his experience in providing P.O.S.T. (Peace Officers Standards and Training) training to other law enforcement officials.

    The fact that this candidate possessed a regionally accredited doctorate was seen as far more important than the discipline in which the degree was awarded. Had he received the doctorate in criminal justice, public administration, education or another related discipline, he would had been judged as equally qualified. In an university setting, the CJ vs. Ed issue may have been a factor, but not at the community college.

    That said, I think that the education doctorate may provide you with more flexibiity and future options. Most good doctoral programs will allow you to build a specialization into your studies and your can pursue your dissertation in an area that interests you.

    Just my humble opinion.

    Tony
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2002
  11. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I'm not sure that an additional degree is even necessary here.

    But if you must have one, Nosborne's suggestion is best. A county commissioner will be be concerned with law enforcement only a fraction of the time. So you will need some education with wider applicability. Knowledge of general law will obviously have relevance to many issues that cross your desk.

    I don't think that a doctorate is necessary for community college teaching either. If it were, then most of the existing CC faculty wouldn't be teaching.

    My layman's impression is that CRJ has a rather different focus at the CC level, compared to the doctoral level. The former is aimed at preparing and providing continuing education to police officers. The latter seems to me to lean towards more theorized quasi-sociology with a social-change motivation.

    So I think that both a CRJ doctorate and a J.D. will have some utility at the CC level. Which is more valuable is a technical question that's beyond my expertise. I'd suggest talking to faculty members in some local CC CRJ departments, and asking them.

    As a what? If you are planning to use additional education to qualify for a higher position, what kind of role are you shooting for? If you aspire to management, public administration or something like that might be valuable, I'd think.

    Get a J.D. Attorneys are never at a loss, because they are trained to be professional arguers. Rhetoric never goes out of style.
     
  12. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    Re: Re: Which Doctorate has the best Utility?

    I'm sure David, Homer, and Nosborne would disagree. ;) :D
     
  13. ashton

    ashton New Member

    Not education doctorate

    I am 3 credits away from an Master of Education degree at the University of Vermont, and am a full time middle school math teacher. Based on all the doctors of education I've met in the last 18 months, and what I've read in college catalogs, the doctor of education degree is for people who want to teach kindergarden through high school, or want to teach new teachers in the education department of a college or university.

    Unless you have some experience as a teacher in a pre-college environment that you didn't mention, I don't think you would be admitted to an EdD or PhD in education program, and I don't think such a degree would help you get a criminal-justice related job any more than any doctorate in any field.

    The education doctorate might help you a little in geting a teaching job at a community college, but only because some community college students are not really ready for college, and need remedial instruction in high school subjects.
     
  14. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Which Doctorate has the best Utility?

    But who would they bill for the hours?
     
  15. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Re: Not education doctorate

    Originally posted by ashton
    I am 3 credits away from an Master of Education degree at the University of Vermont, and am a full time middle school math teacher. Based on all the doctors of education I've met in the last 18 months, and what I've read in college catalogs, the doctor of education degree is for people who want to teach kindergarden through high school, or want to teach new teachers in the education department of a college or university.

    TONY: Actually, many of those who enroll in doctoral study in education are neither K-12 teachers nor teacher educators (although, of course, many are). Doctorates in education include programs in educational leadership/administration, counseling, instructional technology (my field), curriculum/instruction, educational psychology, educational research and a host of other specializations. In the three graduate programs that I have attended (in three different states), many of the students were outside the field of academia.

    Unless you have some experience as a teacher in a pre-college environment that you didn't mention, I don't think you would be admitted to an EdD or PhD in education program, and I don't think such a degree would help you get a criminal-justice related job any more than any doctorate in any field.

    TONY: Ed.D./Ph.D. programs routinely admit students who have not taught in a K-12 environment. Fellow students in my own education doctoral program include health sciences professors from Loma Linda University, a professor of kinesiology from National Taiwan University, a minister, a school counselor, an adminstrator from a non-profit organization and business leaders, in addition to several K-12 and college administrators and several K-12 teachers. I am personally acquainted with persons teaching criminal justice (and other disciplines) at the community college level who possess advanced degrees in education.

    The education doctorate might help you a little in geting a teaching job at a community college, but only because some community college students are not really ready for college, and need remedial instruction in high school subjects.

    TONY: It certainly is true that community college students are not ready for college level work. In California, the situation is horrific--in fact, most of the incoming freshman cannot qualify for admission into freshman English and college algebra and must take remedial coursework.

    However, with all due respect, Gerry, I must correct you here as well. Remediation courses at community colleges are not taught by criminal justice faculty (nor by nursing, auto repair, computer science or architecture faculty). These students are taught by developmental education/adult education faculty who specialize in remediation.

    In short, there is no reason why someone with a doctorate in education should not be able to teach at a community college (unless, of course, no positions are available or a candidate has greater experience or some campus politics enter the picture). A masters degree in criminal justice or equivalent is the requirement for teaching at this level. A doctorate definately gives a competitive edge (and usually qualifies full-time faculty for a higher salary as well).

    Gerry, best of luck with your masters. It must feel nice to be so close to finishing.

    Tony Pina
    Adjunct Faculty of Education
    California State U., San Bernardino
     
  16. ashton

    ashton New Member

    Re: not education doctorate

    As Anthony Pina rightly points out, I overlooked some areas that are in the realm of the doctor of education, such as counceling, psychology, instructional technology, school administration, and research. Recently, I have encountered several people who had the idea that masters or doctorates in education were primarily to prepare to teach at the college or university level. My main point was that education degrees primarily relate to the K-12 level.
     
  17. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member

    Wild take from left field:

    You have a cop working towards his masters in CJ, so what next.

    1. If you want to teach at CC or equivalent - nothing more needed, PhD or ED both nice additions but not required.

    2. If you want to teach at College or University - either PhD or JD.

    3. Something else - probably a JD.

    My 2 centavos - a JD gives the most flexibility in options and will probably take less time (2-3 years) versus PhD or Ed (4-6 years). Of course if you want mental growth and flexibility inthinking I would switch them around.:p
     
  18. Nosborne

    Nosborne New Member

    Billdayson says: "But if you must have one, Nosborne's suggestion is best."


    Nosborne's suggestions are ALWAYS the best! (wink)

    Nosborne, JD
     

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