What If 2020 Was Just a Rehearsal?

The Electoral College was never intended to be a democratic election when it was invented by the founding fathers. The idea back then was that community leaders in all the communities across the country would run as electors in their own community. Then all the electors would meet in DC to nominate and elect the President of the United States.

Andrew Jackson wanted to be president in 1824. He got beat out by John Quincy Adams. So, in 1828 he decided to make it a national political campaign to elect electors across the country that would be pledged to vote for him in the electoral college. This was a new a radical idea. Not even considered possible by the founding fathers. Andrew Jackson went on to beat John Quincey Adams. Prior to 1828 the average percentage of citizens voting for presidential electors was like around 25%. In the 1828 election the turnout was 57%. The presidential elections have been run by national campaigns for president ever since then.

 

Nope, not good enough to get off the hook.

See, what we can perceive in high-quality media, and in the work of researchers like Rick Hasen (seriously, read the Politico article, it's informative), is a Trump- and GOP-led slow-moving and ongoing coup against democratic governance. This is, by faaaaaar, the greatest threat to democracy today. We'd be living in a much better world if the greatest threats were nonbinary bathrooms or south border refugees (who are somehow automatically worse than Lautenbergh asylees).

There is NO indication, none whatsoever, that Republicans (either most voters OR the GOP apparatus) will lift their finger to stop undemocratic actions led by GOP itself. Spreading the messages of Arizona fraudit, just for example, is not "defending the American democracy" - it is attacking it. You are a part of the problem, Lerner.

 

As things evolve I adjust my views and today I would recommend GOP to organize its coalition around shared policy goals with its political opponents i'e Democrats.
This is my stand today and I'm against what is perceived as many in GOP radicalizing against democracy.
Indeed while the ideological battles continue I see the public opinion first half a year 2021 was trending left and now its trending right.
The truth is that Republican voters have the country’s best interests at heart just as Democrat voters.
Stanislav - Best if each side take a look at the voting through opponents eyes. If interested in better understanding of those at the opposite end of the political spectrum
and be the a step of a journey toward reducing incivility and polarization.

I'm interested in prospects for bipartisan cooperation in areas of shared concern.

 

At the moment, it's not in political self-interest of individual elected and wannabe GOPniks to heed your recommendation. And they basically kicked out of mainstream GOP anyone with a shred of principles (none of the people you listed have any, anymore). Trump actually works overtime to make sure it stays this way.

Step zero: as a party, you guys need to recognize Biden as a legitimate President. I know you can do it - but you also won't punish your representative/senator/Trump for refusing to do that. So collectively yo'all will continue to undermine democracy, rational governance, and shared civil identity of Americans.

It is mighty hard for a center-Left or Liberal voter to see "voting through opponents eyes" when opponents don't accept their voting rights as legitimate, or "authentically American". So, yeah, you first.

 

I can argue that your side didn't see Trump as legit president as well.
But this is counter productive to what I would like to see.
No one needs to wait for the other side to be first.
People just have to do it for the future of our country.

 

You could argue anything but that doesn't make it true. Of course there was plenty of that kind of nonsense on Fox News falsely claiming the Dems were doing that. That doesn't make it true either. You tried and tried to prove it true but couldn't find one single left biased media claiming that. All you produced was right biased media falsely claiming that.

 

I also pointed out that I watched far more left biased news than you and never once saw anyone claim that Trump was not the legit president. Which was completely worthless data to you. So I found two Very High accuracy sources that said the same thing. Which you summarily ignored. This is all taking place after your stated defense to consuming mediocre accuracy news that you verify the news yourself. This completely ridiculous assertion has been proven wrong because even now you still stick to the stupid lie that on the left Trump was not accepted as a legit president. Once those Fox News lies get stuck in your brain they are NEVER corrected, apparently. You apparently lie to yourself just to justify it.

 

In one of the previous treads I shared an interview with HRC post elections, I though that the top democrat clearly questioned the legitimacy of Trump election.
But this is not the goal for accusing each side now. Most GOP voters saw the media and Dem's attacking Trump non stop from 2015 to 2020.
Today I'm looking at events post elections 2020, and trying in my mind to form a path for toward reducing incivility and polarization.
So I can clearly look at events from opponent side.
I still think that the voters on both side had the best interests for our country at heart.

 

The Jello is on the table, and the hammer and nails are next to it. The wall is over there....

 

All noble goals, but you start from a base of lies. And your apparently attempted magnanimous offer to put aside the lie that the left was doing the same thing that the right is now doing by attacking our democracy and saying that the left was claiming Trump was not the legitimate president is a stupid lie. It is insulting in its stupidity. You found one quote where Hilary said she lost because of mistakes she made, Comey made, and perhaps the Russia interference. It is ridiculous that she claimed Trump was illegitimate because of that. It didn't happen. In any case, one stupid quote that you misinterpret does not nullify two Very High Accuracy sources that I provided.

P.S. Sorry that I seem to be ignoring your noble goals. I just believe that it will lead to more gaslighting is my problem.

 

Look thy are again bringing up the Steele dossier, and Russia collusion, I don't want to dwell on these things anymore.
I don't think I started with anything false.
But really trying to move forward from these.

 

You started off with threatening a flat out lie.

This was a lie feed to you by Fox News and other mediocre accuracy media sources that you view. Hillary did NOT claim anything like Trump was illegitimate. Just because Trump is a selfish criminal that cares nothing about our country it does not mean that people saying this are claiming that he is illegitimate. In the past when I stated that Fox News was mediocre accuracy you made the silly assertion that you self check the accuracy of the news. That was a false statement. You sticking to this lie proves it was a false statement.

 

No it wasn't, it was propagated by the left media moistly and as I mentioned and provided to you a clip that demonstrated it in another tread.
You are in denial.
And today in the morning I tun on the laptop and one of the first articles on the web site is Steele Dosier is back in news- what a timing .

Christopher Steele Defends Russia Dossier:
5 hours ago — According to Steele, the tape was never released because Russia got what it wanted from Trump when he was president.
The left media will be using this and much more to prevent Trump from running again.
You can search it, I don't want to propagate this thing.
Steele:
"I stand by the work we did, the sources that we had, and the professionalism which we applied to it,"

 

The Steele dossier has nothing to do with the claim that the left had a position that Trump's election was illegitimate. That is unless you've already been detached from reality by Trump's lies which is obvious you have been. The right talked more about the dossier than the left did.

You really have no clue what you are talking about. You think you know better what the left claims yet you never watch left-biased media. It should be obvious how foolish that position is. Since it is not obvious to you it just shows how badly you've been fooled by the Fox News lies.

 

You can attack a politician as a person without bringing into question whether or not he or she was elected in a legitimate fashion. Democrats calling Trump a terrible person have absolutely no bearing on whether or not they believe that his 2016 election was legit.

 

When the top Democrat, the Presidential is calling Trump a Russian spy and that Russians stole the elections?
Revisit the video clip of HRC post elections 2016.
While it was George Papadopoulos info that started the investigation the fake dossier aided it as well.

 

When the top Democrat is calling Trump a Russian spy and that Russians stole the elections its more then attacking politician, its a statement that the election loss was due to Russians stealing, so the elected president is non legit. Yes, and former director Comey was also blamed.
Followed by 4 years of constant non stop attacks and attempts to remove the president.

 

The two sides disagree about how essential the dossier was to the FISA court application to monitor Page.
McCabe told CNN. “Was the dossier material important to the [FISA] package? Of course, it was. As was every fact included in that package. Was it the majority of what was in the package? Absolutely not.”
And Ronna McDaniel, chair of the Republican National Committee, said on the cable network: “And it’s really shameful that for two years this cloud has been upon his presidency (Trump) and it was precipitated by this fake dossier paid for by the Hillary Clinton and the DNC that the Justice Department ran with, that Democrats for two years have accused our president of being an agent for a foreign country.”
We know that there was going to be a Russia probe, even without a dossier, because of the Russian Tower meeting.

 

I wonder if Sisyphus read fake news?

 

GOP now attacks American democratic SYSTEM per se. Get the difference through your head.
What you are complaining about is the equivalent of how the right-wing media and compliant mainstream media smearing Hillary over Uranium One deal (the deal she had nothing to do with, nor there was anything untoward in it to begin with). Fox and the gang had a field day with this for months: did you have a problem with THAT? Same with Trump "attacks", except they have way, way more truth to them. For example, I haven't seen a good explanation for why oligarch Rybolovlev sold a Florida property to Trump $100 MILLION DOLLARS under market; did you see one? care to share? I do not say "oligarch close to Kremlin" here because that'd be redundant; they are all close to Kremlin and all take orders.

Page thing: explain to me why you find that surveillance problematic? Do you want to know if a guy close to a President is in the pocket of Russia? And let's be clear here: a guy who "worked with Gazprom" for years like Page did IS in the pocket of Kremlin; these guys don't work with anyone they can't control. You know how Russian "capitalism" works dontcha?