What does it mean to be CA State Approved

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by mcjon77, Aug 21, 2003.

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  1. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Your comment is unclear. Wal-Mart has a history of low wages and employee abuse. They just settled a huge lawsuit for such practices in the state I live in. They also have a reputation for being unethical. To be upfront, I have no idea if it is true or not. Are you saying because they are large they are a good place to work? And, if so, are you telling me you know me well enough to choose where I should aspire to work? Again, your post doesn't make a lot of sense.
     
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Not only is this a violation of the TOS (personal attack), it utterly misrepresents my stance regarding MIGS and the CEU.

    I made it very clear I was talking about degrees issued by the CEU, a recognized university in Mexico. There was a great deal of debate regarding their authority to issue the doctorate, as well as the efficacy of doing so through MIGS.

    The research I conducted had nothing to do with MIGS or the CEU, nor have I represented that it did.

    The rest of that post (about my ideas changing) is vague and hard to respond to. Many people posting here evolved their thinking on MIGS over time. But I haven't reversed myself. Perhaps you're not familiar with the discussions, but those who participated in them at great length (like Gus Sainz and Bill Dayson) don't seem to share your criticism. I wonder why not?

    I don't believe I represented anything regarding retail HR practices.
     
  3. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    CEU is NOT MIGS and that is the crux of the MIGS issue. Would the MIGS diplomas say CEU on them? If the CEU registrar were called to validate a degree would the MIGS students show up there? The house of cards named MIGS fell down in part when it was clarified that the answers to this questions was negative.
     
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I think you hit the nail on the head there.

    To those of you with emotional needs that I've been unresponsive to, I'm truly sorry.

    Perhaps, we could have special forum for group hugs and pats on the back?
     
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The whole plan, as advertised, was to conduct degree programs (through MIGS) that would result in degrees issued by the CEU.

    The merits of that plan, whether or not the CEU could award these degrees, the role of the Secretary of Education in Nuevo Leon, the need for MIGS to be licensed in Florida, the efficacy of MIGS' processes, etc., were all subjects to debate. And they were debated, with the results available on this board.

    The current criticism is not well-grounded in the facts, and it smacks of something personal. (Not to mention irrelevant to anything under current discussion, which further proves this point.)
     
  6. Kirkland

    Kirkland Member

    Walmart by far and away is the leading Fortune 500 company which is based on revenue. A classmate of mine heads up their travel division which includes their corporate aircraft fleet. He is doing very well and has a challenging and rewarding executive position. On the other hand, I do hear muffled complaints from time to time from the checkers. Like any huge multifaceted corporation, there will be many different experiences and perspectives as well as lawsuits to deal with, some with merit, some not. They are one of our corporate accounts and they have a reputation for being shrewd bargainers and demanding as a customer. What does all this mean? The corporation is agressive in the way it runs its operation (so is FedEx), it is a resounding success, and it leads the market. There are many rewarding careers for trained professionals within the corporation that many people aspire to.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2003
  7. Kirkland

    Kirkland Member

    Rich, I think James is suggesting that the number of responses you received from your research may not have been a representative sample of the universe of registered corporations. Therefore, inferences made from the limited data you received would be a scientifically derived guess. A little more information concerning the research and its construct would be useful.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2003
  8. Kirkland

    Kirkland Member

    Lets have three, 1. the regular forum for "normal" people (balanced, good natured, open minded) discussing education. 2. the hugs and pats forum (for the emotionally scarred and overly sensitive) 3. the wall forum (where fanatics are taken out back and "shot").
     
  9. kf5k

    kf5k member

    Can I make some suggestions for forum #3? :)
     
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    A dissertation doesnt' normally set out to "prove" something. The data gathered and the inferences drawn are "another rock on the pile" of knowledge in the particular field. But show me another study in this field asking these questions, and what the results are.

    Absent the above, show me the anecdotal evidence that points in another direction. The fact is, DETC accreditated schools'--and unaccredited schools'--degrees are simply not acceptable in some situations. The data I received supports that notion. Whether or not inferences can be drawn to the entire employment sector isn't the point. It is preponderating evidence until contradicted.
     
  11. kf5k

    kf5k member

    It's up to the person presenting research (or) making the assertions to prove these facts not the challengers. If you present research that seeks to prove something it must withstand the questioning that the research is right or is incorrect. DETC schools get transfer credit accepted easily and often, and research to the contrary is suspect. Mike Novick and I have been e-mailing many of the schools in Bears' guide and are getting very pleasing results, and it ain't 20% acceptance baby. When we get done selecting our schools we will make them known so that students of DETC schools can see that they have many choices available and that DETC schools get accepted by well known RA/DL programs commonly used by( ALL) DL students. This isn't a research study but simply a list of schools for the beneifit of DETC students. One school even volunteered about their doctorate program, and I didn't even ask. Surprising what happens when a school believes they are talking to a person about to enroll and give them money :) Many said send us the application- money- and have the school (DETC) send us your transcripts :) :) Preparing this list has been fun, eye-opening, and rewarding. It will be helpful, not negative, and will promote the success of DETC/DL students. DETC degrees are fully accredited and offer good overall utility.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2003
  12. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    James

    Are these emails going to the registrar or person that ultimately decides if credit will be accepted? Or, is it going to the admissions counselor/salesperson whose job it is to politely answer questions and get as many aplications submited as possible? If a salesperson suggests you submit an application does that mean the credit will be accepted or that it might? If it is the latter you might as well mark it as 100% and be done with it. It seems your bias is showing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2003
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I hope you find many schools willing to accept degrees from DETC-accredited schools. I didn't. See

    Ten Speed Press Article

    for an article I wrote discussing just that thing. I did exactly what you did, but published my results.

    Good luck! (Like most reasonable people, I'll avoid judging your work until after I read it. :rolleyes: )
     
  14. c.novick

    c.novick New Member


    Dave,

    The universities I have contacted have been through the registrars. I honestly don't know what the results will be. It is way too soon to comment and provide accurate data.

    I am honestly curious and this will assist in finding an RA university that will take my credits down the road.

    While it would be nice to see all RA universities accept the NA credits, I am a realist.

    The results have been interesting, but way too soon to go either way.

    Thanks
     
  15. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Thanks for replying Mike. It sounds interesting.
     
  16. Kirkland

    Kirkland Member

    Rich,
    Research is conducted to ultimately prove or disprove hypotheses. I have no idea what your hypotheses were or what the construct of your study was. However, here are some facts surrounding your study:

    1. Your study sample had 267 respondents (representing 267 businesses I assume).

    2. There are 5,607,743 businesses in the U.S. according to Census Bureau data as indicated in www.BizStats.com

    3. U.S companies with number of employees and percent of total employment:

    1-9 employees 4,402,115 Co.'s 11.1% total employment
    10-19 605,693 7.3 %
    20-99 501,848 17.8%
    100-499 81,347 14.1%
    500+ 16,740 49.7%

    Total 5,607,743 100.0%
    Co's with 10-500+ 1,205,628 88.9%

    4. Your study sample represents .0000476 of all businesses in the U.S. or .0002214 of businesses in the U.S. with 10 employees or more. This equates to 1 respondent out of 21,002.78 (for all businesses) or 1 respondent out of 4,515.46 (for businesses with 10 employees or more).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2003
  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member


    So????

    Are you claiming that a survey requires a fixed percentage? What is your point?
     
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Are you saying a statistically significant sample cannot be drawn from 267 participants? (Not to mention the more than 1,000 that began, but did not finish, the survey. Their participation was also accounted for in the study.) As Bill said, what would be the number that would please you?

    Again, you display an utter lack of understanding about sampling and statistical inference.

    Presidential polls, for example, project their findings based upon sample sizes of about 600 out of a population of 100 million-or-so of voting age. Inferences are then drawn from that percentage, one much smaller than you attribute to me. The smaller the sample, the wider the confidence interval (assuming the confidence level, which is different, remains the same). That's why you hear them say something like "plus or minus 3 points" or whatever.

    Please learn about such things before commenting on them.
     
  19. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    Rich, you forgot to mention that these things are covered in any good undergraduate Statistics course. ;)
     
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Quite true. I would not expect the undergradute to articulate accurately regarding inferential statistics, even though such things are covered in a good stats class.

    Rather, I would expect him/her not to say anything at all. But once that person steps in, he/she ought to know what he/she is talking about. And that is clearly not the case here.
     

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