What do YOU think of Condoleezza Rice?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by italiansupernova, Feb 17, 2005.

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  1. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Hi Decimon,

    I have been looking around and I have found this link. It explains a little bit why Wilson was perceived by some to be a racist. I´m sure you are much more familiar than me with the figure of Wilson. My knowledge of the historical character is definitely superficial (a couple of courses of history when I was an undergraduate student in the US). But having stated that, I just have problems believing that a man that came up with such a noble ideas as the self determination rights of nations, the creation of the League of Nations to prevent wars, his anti imperialistic stand, trust in universal law, etc... could be a racist. I think he was a idealist politician, and people of this moral stature don´t fall in absurdities like bigotry. Again this is just a personal view. Nevertheless, thanks for the information. I was under the impression that Wilson was an immaculate figure to the American public. That´s why your conversation with Nosborne surprised me.


    Cordial greetings from an (unsually) snow-covered Holland
     
  2. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Hi JLV,

    Here is another view of Wilson with some references to some later American politicians.

    From a commonly snow-covered New York. :)
     
  3. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    I don't necessarily think that it is more acceptable for men to be a bunch of back-stabbing illegitimates, just that it is not exactly surprising when men are. Personally, if I were writing the rule book, I would say that all managers, male and female alike, should learn to be kinder and gentler.
     
  4. Hear, hear! I couldn't agree with you more....

    In fact, I would like to see other managers adopt the ethical leadership style that I personally exhibit - compassion, concern, and stewardship over human resources that have been many years in development, rather than treating them as disposable lumps of flesh in order to shave 50 cents an hour off the starting wage for someone "new".....
     
  5. Orson

    Orson New Member

    BIZZARE OPINION, based on WHAT?!?!

    I find Carl's opinion (below) to be utterly bizzare. What - exactly - is it based on?

    Everything I've read, based on inside sources, contradicts it! The profile I read indicated that she was a sounding-out board who listened attentively to everyone elses opinion (esp Rumsfeld and Powell) and rarely if ever revealed her own cards.

    If anything, Rice functions more like a psychotherapist who employs an active listening style. This clarifies why Bush keeps close company with her. He needs a reliable second opinion in deciding important issues and gathering support from the cabinet.



    WHAT'S REALLY REALLY INTERESTING is how the State Department is being made over in recent days and weeks (which has brought almost no one's comment): Rice, Karen Hughes, (Dani) Powell (who speaks Arabic, and is of Egyptian descent), and Liz Cheney are all in top positions. All are female in important posts of undersecratary for public diplomacy, assistant sec, etc.

    Yet no one has remarked on these huge changes - together with Rice's globe-trotting emissary work.

    India sees Rice as friendly, unlike Powell, and the leadership style under her is clearly activist, and pro-Bush. But mostly, it's the face of women in power - an image designed to model women's empowerment to the Islamist enemy!

    Thus, a very stark makeover from State under Powell. And now the intriguing question: is this Rice's doing? Or Bush's?

    -Orson
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2005
  6. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Carl,

    I seriously doubt that this is women's fault, but so many aspiring professional women are taught (by a male-dominated system, no less), directly or indirectly, that they must be more manly than any man in order to succeed.

    You are correct that women need to remember their natural strengths (kindness, gentleness, etc.) - and I would assert that men need to learn those qualities, too - but did you really mean sensuality? Or possibly sensitivity?

    Did you really expect us to believe that you wouldn't like to wake up to find Condi and/or Hillary next to you? Come on!
     
  7. Hey Ted,
    Thanks for the polite reply back, and please accept my apologies for some of my more strident posts I have tossed your way in the past.

    But as for your last question..... oh my God..... NO! Anyone but those two harpies!!! LOL

    I confess that my answer is biased because I wake up every morning next to the most beautiful woman I've ever laid eyes on, and she remains that way and becomes more attractive to me every day, even after many years of being together - that woman is my wife.
    - Carl (the sentimentalist)
     
  8. Re: BIZZARE OPINION, based on WHAT?!?!

    Orson,
    My being bizarre is not exactly news..... ;)

    I enjoy your posts - they are thought-provoking and generate primal responses in me, but I also like to hear what others say and possibly reformulate my own opinions as a result....

    - Carl
     
  9. jugador

    jugador New Member

     
  10. Tom H.

    Tom H. New Member

    There was definitely a dark side to Woodrow Wilson. Wilson "played hardball" with political opponents on both the Left and Right, to use an American colloquialism. (http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Heroes/EugeneDebsSocialism.html) He was certainly not the mild, professorial academic who reluctantly entered the political arena that high school and undergraduate history texts portray. Indeed, he was a politician full of contradictions, complexities and subtleties that short historical overviews tend to ignore.
     
  11. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    One of President Wilson's FIRST acts upon assuming office was to sign an executive order segregating the federal Civil Sevice.

    Think about that. Since Reconstruction, white and black federal employees worked together. Until Georgia bord Wilson, that is.
     
  12. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Yes.

    Venturing further into the political void, it's worth looking as well at the "labor" legislation of the FDR years. Equally racist.

    Black Americans were making it on their own efforts until...progressives...cut their legs off.
     
  13. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Yes, it was, over Eleanor Roosevelt's loud and continuous protests.

    William Manchester talks about this in his popular account of America after 1930, "The Glory and the Dream". (Not a scholastic work, by any means, but wonderfully entertaining.)

    WPA project contractors were permitted to discriminate in hiring, firing, and pay.

    The military remained segregated until Truman. (The good old Navy Officer Corps remains too damned white even today, IMHO)

    BUT, Social Security was color blind and poor elderly balck people needed it worse than anyone else did...and therefore their families also benefitted.

    Hard to say, hard to say.

    I am reminded of Mississippi Senator Bilbo's comment. A reporter asked him why he so fiercely opposed President Truman's civil rights agenda when Truman wasn't saying anything that FDR hadn't said before. Bilbo replied,"Yeah, but Truman MEANS it!"
     
  14. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    At the time of inception the average lifespan was less than 65 years. For blacks it was less still.
     
  15. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Yes, but those families that had elderly relatives older than 65 were surely grateful for the help.

    Even though many people died too soon to collect, many also did live to see ages greater than 65.
     
  16. BDev

    BDev New Member

    If Condi were white, I'm sure the majority of you would describe her as: "brilliant and successful" because she's nothing less. I don't think she would be attacked the way she has been, if she were a Democrat. Most of you couldn't hold your own in a "casual" conversation with her about the weather but you somehow feel qualified/justified in attacking her here. I am extremely proud of her. She is proof that Americans (most of us) have come a very long way.
     
  17. Charles

    Charles New Member

    Navy Officer Corps may be too white. However, it is not because of any lack of opportunity.

    The opportunities are limitless in the Navy, regardless of one's race, gender or religion.

    When it comes to opportunity, the Navy and the military as a whole have been way ahead of the civilian sector. The BOOST Program (Broadened Opportunity for Officer Selection and Training) is just one example. The program provided up to year of preparation focusing specifically on math, science, and English. BOOST graduates went on to study at the Naval Academy or NROTC.

    The BOOST Program is now an integral part of the Navy's Seaman to Admiral Program.

    http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:KN5fnBMSTTQJ:[url]www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR981/MR981.ch3.pdf+%22broadened+opportunity+for+officer+selection%22&hl=en[/url]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2005
  18. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Personally, I think Condi's kind of a cutie pie. Smart too. - Ted.
     
  19. Charles

    Charles New Member

  20. Charles

    Charles New Member

    Rice: Gun Rights Important As Free Speech

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050512/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/rice_guns_1&printer=1
     

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