Washington DC summit on dubious degrees

Re: If I were in charge...

Are you saying that the RA authorities don't accredit all worthy instituions that apply for accreditation, or that schools shouldn't have to bother with applying and some central accrediting authority should seek them out and do an independent evaluation without the participation of the schools?

When a school applies for accreditation, it is a "one-stop" process. (The only exception to this that I know of is Western Governors' University, which is unique in many ways.)

I do agree that, in principle, the fractured nature of accreditation in the U.S. is a problem. I think the answer is agreements between the existing RA authorities, not a new federal bureaucracy.

 

And how much are they going to pay some politically connected consultant to put together this list, which any of us could easily compile in a couple of hours?

I will say right now that I would donate my time to compile this list, and to provide them information as to how the list could be automatically updated on a daily basis.

But I refuse to use any political contacts that I may have, because I think the process would be corrupt from the beginning.

 

Re: Re: Washington DC summit on dubious degrees

And what part of the Constitution would give the federal government the right to do something like this?

 

Regulation of interstate commerce

the Internet has made education so available nationwide that it has become inter-state commerce.

Purchasing a fraudulent degree online from another state is clearly under the pervue of the FBI. Really can't believe you didn't see that. Conspiracy theorist?

 

Folks,

www.ed.gov search on "diploma mill" for some articles

in addition:

http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ous/international/usnei/us/edlite-uscompauth.html

I admire the fact that folks are concerned but essentially, the Federal government is hands off unless a law is broken.

under the "U.S. Competent Authority" portion of the link above and you will see that the responsibility lies elsewhere.

Do you really want the Federal Government to fix an issue? I'll have MY "PHD" before a plan is agreed to, let alone enacted.

More importantly, for every new activity, more taxes, or another program suffers. What do you trade off?

As an aside:

Jeff,

As for the "consultant", I think I saw a post by Roy Savia that says these are profitable opportunities.

 

Re: Regulation of interstate commerce

That is true. The federal government certainly has the right to regulate interstate commerce, and in the U.S., degree mills almost always (or always) involve interstate commerce. And as for commerce with other countries, the feds have the right to regulate that as well. I clearly overstated my position.

But thanks for throwing in the accusation that I am a conspiracy theorist. That really helps. Can't you argue your point without making unfounded personal accusations?

 

Sorry...

I should have put in a smiley. But you were coming on a little strong so I was wondering. Here's one now .

I picked one with FBI shades.

 

Re: Sorry...

Understood. Fair enough.

 

CHEA was brand-new in 1996. DETC was recognized by CHEA Jan 2001. Perhaps in the 5 year interim, CHEA recognized the growth of media-based education and that DETC standards regarding that medium were as high if not higher than many traditional universities. Perhaps CHEA realized that statements of that sort reflected preconceived and unsupported thinking and that continued intransigence would bring the attention of DOJ regarding restrictive trade practices.

 

Here's a thought for discussion (argument?) why not have DETC accredit all DL programs? They already accredit programs outside the U.S. so acceptance/evaluation of a non U.S. degree would be simplified. There at least would be consistent application of accreditation.

 

CHEA was hardly "brand new in 1996. Some exploration will reveal CORPA and COPA, not to mention the NCA (not the North Central Association). DETC was recognized by those earlier versions of CHEA, too. According to the DETC, it has been recognized by CHEA and its predecessors since 1975, not 2001.

DETC has been recognized by the Department of Education (and its predecessor) since 1959, BTW.

 

This implies some sort of central control over accreditation. The very existence of accreditation can be traced to the utter lack of central control.

This ain't gonna happen.

 

Each of the below is cut and pasted from the appropriate website. From the dates advertised the folks attending schools out west may cause me to question the value of their degree since WASC was not formed until 1962. More importantly, what was the system of "accreditation" (perhaps validation) prior to any of these organizations. Further, all of these folks are quick to point out their recognition by the U.S. Dept of Ed. So while a central accrediting body is not a reality, the federal rubber stamp certainly seems important.


WASC was formed in 1962.

In 1912, the Commission on Colleges of what is now the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, was organized

The Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities replaces the Commission on Colleges and Universities that was originally part of the Northwest Association of Schools and of Colleges and Universities, a voluntary, nongovernmental organization for the improvement of educational institutions founded in 1917.

The Higher Learning Commission is part of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools. The Association was founded in 1895

Founded in 1885, the New England Association of Schools & Colleges, Inc. (NEASC), is the nation’s oldest regional accrediting association

The Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools (MSA), established in 1887, The Middle States Commission on Higher Education (MSCHE) was established in 1919

The Distance Education and Training Council has been the standard-setting agency for correspondence study and distance education institutions since it was established in 1926.

 

Re: Re: If I were in charge...

Neither. I would like to see a consolidation of regional authorities into one national authority in order to have common standards across regions and to make it easier to determine the accreditation status of institutions. I would expect this central/national authority to operation pretty much like an RA except that it would be national.

 

JoAnn,

I agree with the common standard. However, I do not believe in one national accreditor because of the cultural and demographic differences among the various regions. A thought might be to have a representative accrediting council, body, group, cluster, whatever terminology, that consisted of rotating members from each RA (NA?) that would be responsible for accrediting/validating for a specified term.

I think the other problem is that many of the institutions that are in the CHEA database are accredited by other bodies. How would you incorporate all of these functions? A national accrediting authority would have to be very large to accomplish all things.

I'm not sure that the issue doesn't fall back to Dr. Douglas' point of utility rather than accreditation. Not everyone wants or needs an RA (or even BA, MA, PHD, etc...) degree.

What I want is a simplified method of validation of credentials. Although this forum sure doesn't take long to provide an answer......

 

Accreditation

Major institutions like UC Berkeley, Stanford and USC have been accredited since 1949 - probably by either NCA or NWA until WASC was formed in 1962.

Some Americans chide our cousins the British for having strange systems - our academic accreditation system is bizarre. And with the current regime in Washington I don't see anything changing. The US Dept of Education is happy to push it back on the voluntary sector to solve the problem.

 

DETC does not accredit programs, it accredits institutions. Specifically, institutions that focus on distance learning. The vast majority of institutions that offer distance learning programs in the U.S. do not fall into this category. They are operated by traditional "bricks and mortar" schools that already have regional accreditation.

It's possible that the current situation could change, but there are enormous entrenched interests, and very little perceived need for changes among the decision makers.

 

DL-Luvr

"happy to push it back on the voluntary sector to solve the problem"

The whole accreditation process is voluntary.

Do you really want the government to address this issue or is it better left to the public sector? I believe that the folks who are in academia are much better qualified than those of us in the government to judge the merits of accreditation.


"Major institutions like UC Berkeley, Stanford and USC have been accredited since 1949 - probably by either NCA or NWA until WASC was formed in 1962. " Got a source for that accreditation?

My point is that accreditation has been shorter lived than many institutions and that prior to that time there had to have been a methodology to validate credentials. I certainly wouldn't question someone with a Stanford degree that was earned prior to 1962 but under the accreditation argument one could. In other posts the message is accreditation of your degree follows that of the institution.

 

Jeff,

"DETC does not accredit programs, it accredits institutions. "

absolutely correct. I was postulating and should have prefaced my comment with such. Thank you for qualifying.

 

Thanks for your input, my reply was to John Bear's statement regarding CHEA, not the chronology of predecessor institutions. I wonder why the disconnect between DETC and CHEA?

Support for my statements comes from CHEA's website:

"The Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) was formed in 1996..."

"Accrediting Commission of the Distance Education and Training Council (DETC)
Michael P. Lambert, Executive Director
1601 Eighteenth Street NW
Washington, DC 20009-2529
Phone: 202-234-5100
Fax: 202-332-1386
E-mail: [email protected]
Web: www.detc.org
Recognized by the Council for Higher Education Accreditation, January 2001"

From DETC wesite:
"DETC has enjoyed the official recognition of the U.S. Secretary of Education since 1959, and since 1975, DETC has been recognized by the Council for Higher Education Accreditation or its predecessor organizations."