Visual of Several degrees including the Potchefstroom Doctoral Degree

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Guest, Nov 18, 2001.

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  1. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I admit I'm a horizontal format & calligraphy guy when it comes to diplomas, just because that's what I'm used to. I don't know what it is, I just can't warm up to the vertical diploma.

    Then again, all my diplomas are collecting dust in a box in my basement, so I guess it really doesn't matter.


    Bruce
     
  2. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    The webpage still states it is Columbia Evangelical Seminary, I don't think the "Evangelical" has been dropped.

    As far as the name change, I read somewhere that Columbia in this case is a nod to the Columbia River, which is supposed to be close by. Being too lazy to look it up, I have no idea how close. And I agree with Tom, I may disagree with Rick concerning the value of unaccredited schools, but he's always been upfront and honest, and our e-mail exchanges have been very cordial.


    Bruce
     
  3. levicoff

    levicoff Guest

    I find it a bit pathetic when the president of a degree mill feels the need to post copies of his degrees in an attempt to justify his school. I have called Walston's school a degree mill since the beginning (when it was known as Faraston Theological Seminary, and after he changed its name to Columbia) and, like the folks at another school that is allegedly based in Mexico but operates from two U.S. states, Rick has managed to continually put his foot in his mouth by attempting to justify his efforts.

    Incidentally, the best expose I have seen on Columbia from a visual perspective doesn't come from Walston himself, but from a Mormon website that exposed one of Walston's graduates. The site includes photos of the "campus" of Columbia Evangelical Seminary, and can be viewed at:
    http://www.shields-research.org/Novak/CES/ces.htm
     
  4. levicoff

    levicoff Guest

    I am not aware of whether Dennis monitors this forum these days, so I'll provide a brief response . . .

    Dennis does, indeed, have more degrees than many of us combined. They include a JD, MBA, MS, and BS (SUNY); M.Div. and Th.M. (Liberty); BA (Lee); and his most recent, a DBA (Sarasota). Since this is off the top of my head, I've omitted a few, since I believe his total is now 11 degrees, plus a host of professional certifications (including CPA, CLU, CPCU, and bar membership).

    I think the important point in the differentiation between Dennis' degrees and Rick Walston's degrees, however, is that every one of Dennis' degrees are regionally accredited, whereas several of Rick's degrees are not only unaccredited but are also from degree mills.

    Therefore, to con one of Dennis' old expressions, to compare the degrees of Huber and Walston is like comparing apples and moon rocks. [​IMG]
     
  5. Smudge

    Smudge New Member

    I had an Economics professor at Baker College a few terms back with 3 Doctorates; one was a Divinity degree.
     
  6. Ike

    Ike New Member

    The link to his (Huber's) page is http://members.tripod.com/~WDHuber/RESUME.html
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    And I agree with you both. I think Rick W. is very up front about the status of his school. I am not able to comment on the quality of the product he produces. I did enjoy his book "Walston's Guide". I do not think the guy is trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. If I were him I might ditch a couple of the degrees he has on the wall as mistakes. Certainly he has some quite legitimate credentials he earned and appears to enjoy academics. The negative credentials tend to raise questions though and I see little point in displaying them when he has two earned and GAAP doctorates.

    His most accomplished graduate (James White) ought to consider attempting a research doctorate. I notice from GST/PUCHE's web page that they will entertain a published/ unpublished work as long as one designs a research proposal around it and allows for adjustments and further development. White is quite prolific and this should be easy for him. He has taken some hits in debate (straw man tactics) over his degree from CES. At least one opponent refers to him as *Dr* White.

    North

     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

  9. levicoff

    levicoff Guest

    I realize that this is getting into a somewhat esoteric issue (countercult apologetics), but I doubt that James White getting a legitimate doctorate will enhance his reputation at this point; he has already done the damage to his rep with the CES degree. Just as Walter Martin (another countercult apologist who was far better known than James White could ever hope to be) did with his California Western (now California Coast) doctorate - the Mormon apologists have been able to hang both White and Martin quite successfully. Regardless of how much truth there may have been to White & Martin's arguments, their credentials were like a millstone around the neck of their credibility. Ditto for Rick Walston and his several degree mill credentials - merely dropping them from his resume does not erase his history, any more than the notion that Sheila could actually establish a legitimate degree-granting institution at this point.

    If anything, looking at Walston, White, Martin, ad infinitum, it sends the message home: The time to establish your credibility is before you earn a degree, not earn a bogus piece of tripe and then try to clean your act up.

    (By the way, I can think of only one exception to the rule: our own goo bro' Barry Foster. But Barry was always up front about his previous degrees being a biiiiig mistake, unlike Walston, who continues to defend his credentials and his joke of a school by, among other things, actually publishing his diplomas on his web site.)
     
  10. drwetsch

    drwetsch New Member

    Of interest to note on the Walston Wall of Honor -- I observed Dr. Bear as one of the two signatures on the Greenwich University diploma. A historical treasure. :)

    John
     
  11. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Perhaps more interesting than the signiture is the way CES uses a reference from Dr John Bear over and over again as an endorsement. The qoute seems to be an accurate description of CES but is used repeated I believe to puff up CES. Is it legal to use a qoute and format it to look like an endorsement?

    Dave
     
  12. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    As long as it's an accurate quotation, absolutely--and if John had ever expressed a wish to see the quote taken off the page, I'm confident that Rick would remove it without argument.

    Rick is one of the good guys, and it amazes me to no end that a guy who openly describes his own school as unaccredited can have his school "exposed" as unaccredited, that a guy who openly says his school has no traditional campus can be "exposed" as operating a school without a traditional campus, that a guy who has been very open about the sources of his degrees (in his book if not on his resume) can be "exposed" as having earned degrees from certain schools, and so forth. You may not consider him credible, but there's no dishonesty here, folks.

    As for the countercult stuff: Okay, but would anyone really want to be known as "the world's most credible Mormon-basher" anyway?


    Cheers,

    ------------------
    Tom Head
    www.tomhead.net

    co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
    co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Actually, some people really get off on trying to prove that the Mormon Church is not Christian. I certainly disagree with them theologically but have intellectually enjoyed reading some of their apologetical sites that attempt to explain their beliefs in terms of adherence to early christian beliefs and scripture. However, some people are down right obsessed with Mormons just as there are some obsessed with Freemasons, or obsessed with only using the KJV of the Bible and denouncing those who do not as liberal anti christs.

    At any rate, I agree with what you said about Rick Walston. He is up front about his degrees and school. If I were him I would lose some of those degrees and write them off to poor judgement. Levicoff is correct that the bad degrees follow and hurt credibility. In such a case the only thing to be is honest and move on.


    North

     
  14. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I was very surprised to see the M.Div. from the Korean school, awarded in 2001. Considering Rick has stated in print that he's a *retired* pastor, I'm puzzled as to why he felt he needed a M.Div. at this point, especially considering it was awarded *after* his quite legitimate Potchefstroom Ph.D.

    Has anyone got a handle on this Korean school? Legitimate? Considering the diploma is in English, I have my concerns.


    Bruce
     
  15. levicoff

    levicoff Guest

    On Rick's bio page at http://www.columbiaseminary.org/Prez.htm he includes web sites for all of the schools from which he claims to have graduated. This bio page is the only one of two references Yahoo shows for Korea Reformed Theological Seminary; the other reference is for the school itself.

    And, surprise . . . KRTS' entire web site is in Korean.

    So I'm with Bruce - There's something fishy with this picture (not to mention the picture of Rick at the top of his bio - I never realized that the little turkey was so cute). But unless he speaks fluent Korean (which I doubt) or spent three years in Seoul (which we know is not the case), there's definitely something questionable here. (Incidentally, when I taught at Biblical Theological Seminary for six years, 28% of my own students were Korean or Korean-American. And the only Korean I ever learned was kimchee/i] - cole slaw, after which BTS named the prize for its annual ping pong tournament the Kimchee Cup. And, like most people, I originally learned the word from watching M*A*S*H.)

    BTW, on his bio page, Rick also lists all of the people whom he advised at CES. Call it a gut instinct, but I have a feeling that this list may represent (almost?) the entire litany of CES grads.

    So sorry, Tom and North, but I still consider Rick to be an egotistical joke who doesn't know how to get it right (or is simply too lazy). Besides, notwithstanding the fact that he knows I would have a comeback, one would wonder (in light of the fact that he does have supporters here) why he continues to be so absent from the various dialogues about CES.

    (The truth is, he needn't worry. Rick and I did our thrust-and-parry a few years ago. I'm sure we both believe that we won.)
     
  16. CLSeibel

    CLSeibel Member

    Sorry about the delay in responding to this question. I've been away from my computer the last couple of days due to various Thanksgiving holiday activities. Columbia Biblical Seminary is a division of Columbia International University of South Carolina, which was founded in 1923.

    You ask "on the part of what parties" does Columbia Biblical Seminary enjoy international respect; quite simply, among the relevant parties--the global evangelical community. By stating that it enjoys international respect, I mean simply that students come from virtually every continent to study at this school, and that you can find Columbia Biblical Seminary graduates teaching in reputable seminaries, colleges, and university faculties on virtually every continent. I don't find that terribly comical; perhaps you could clarify wherein you recognize the humor.

    Other ATS-accreditted evangelical seminaries that enjoy similar respect on a global scale include Fuller Theological Seminary, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Recent College in Vancouver, Reformed Theological Seminary, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, Asbury Theological Seminary, and numerous others.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    This is from Walson's school site and I think he is pretty well stuck on himself:

    A friend of mine coined a phrase that I like, "Pentellectual" (an intellectual Pentecostal). So, if you don't mind, I am a Conservative, Evangelical, Bapticostal, Pentellectual.
     
  18. samc79

    samc79 New Member

    I guess not everyone can play with the big boys. [​IMG] Na nun injeh yuhgi ahn wa!
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Not to mention Dallas Theological Seminary (called the Evangelical Harvard).

    North

     
  20. CLSeibel

    CLSeibel Member

    Oh, yes. Of course! I guess I've distanced myself enough from my dispensationalist upbringing to have overlooked Dallas. Actually, almost every one of my professors at Liberty had gained at least one advanced degree from Dallas.
     

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