Vancouver University

Anyone have any updates on this school?

 

Unlicensed.

British Columbia government has been trying to close them down.

Claim that they don't need licensing because they do not teach courses. They just grant degrees for courses taken elsewhere.

Draw your own conclusions.

Anything really new? Unsure.

 

Best thing to do is avoid them. They are Canada's version of Almeda and Saint Regis. It's just a matter of time before the federal authorities give them the axe.

 

Re: Re: Vancouver University

In one word: mill

 

Re: Re: Re: Vancouver University

Precisely!

 

I am not sure if they are a total fraud. They seem to have transfer agreements with a number of non-degree granting private colleges.

They no not, however, have any legal standing and the BC government was actively trying to shut them down.

 

I agree it is somewhat confusing. The whole consortium and transferability double talk can be convincing.

I read a post somewhere from someone who lives in Vancouver who said that they had never even heard of them.

In any event, I believe its a for profit business charading as a University, as are all diploma/degree mills.

 

I believe this is the ploy they are using on prospective students. If students are lead to believe that they can transfrer their credits to other institutions, they will most likely be convinced that VU is legitimate.

 

Right. Another tip-off is the vaguely belligerent language in parts of their website. Reputable schools don't do that.

 

Dennis: It's just a matter of time before the federal authorities give them the axe.

John: I wouldn't hold my breath. They have been going for more than 25 years. And they were once listed in a federal directory of legitimate schools, many years ago. The feds claimed it was a mistake, and rushed out a new edition, but VU has been trading on this for years.

Even though VU and proprietor Raymond Rodgers (who, incidentally, has a legitimate Ph.D. -- I believe from Columbia University -- and is something of an authority on the Cajun language) has been a major nuisance in my life*, I do think he is sincere in what he is doing, or trying to do. (That, of course, does not mean he operates legally; I simply don't know.)
____
* He sued my Canadian publisher three years ago for libel, because VU was included on a list of unaccredited schools. He was asking for C$6,000 (which is about 79 cents US). The publisher spent a lot of time preparing a response before learning that you can't sue for libel in small claims court.

 

The transfer equation ploy seems to be the method of choice for many of these schools.(If credit earned at A is accepted at B whose credit is accepted at accredited C then A=C.).Even if a legitimate school accepts some of the credits – the question is do they count toward graduation.

 

Neither here nor there??????

Taken from Vancouver University's Q & A Page:
Q. [American] Are you accredited? + [Canadian] Are you authorized by statute?

A. Member colleges of the consortia are variously and appropriately registered or accredited and our degrees authorized in statutory context. American (and culturally-confused Canadian) readers please note: outside the United States, universities are authorized in various ways - Royal charter, Papal charter, historic Common Law and/or Parliamentary statute. Although we had long-standing recognized presence in Washington State, and additionally authorized within the Alberta Universities Act, we are primarily constituted by British Columbia statutes and various British Commonwealth Common Law precedents. Vancouver University's statutory context is the BC society and company acts, enhanced by a Common Law tradition of academic freedom which emerged from early struggles first with the Crown and later with clergy. Vancouver University has a formal constitution granting it authority to conduct "university work" (the traditional British Commonwealth terminology for degree-granting programs, when married to "university" and "university college" identity). The statutory basis for secular non-profit Vancouver University's award of degree thus includes its constitution; the presumption arising from its statutorily awarded descriptive name; and the fact that such name and presumption was specifically authorized by the Ministry of Advanced Education in 1983 and (enhanced) 1992. Like BCIT, Kwantlen University College, and Technical University of BC (all three public), we (non-profit secular) are not a member of the AUCC - nor is it (unfortunately) a comprehensive quality assurance process.

So....if VU claims that it has the authority to grant degrees, then why do they not call themselves a university since they are in the business of conducting university work ?????

 

To make a long story short, it sounds as if they are incorporated under the societies act and have authorized themselves to grant degrees in their own constitution.

Don't tell the local pottery club they can do this or they might gives themselves all PhDs.

 

When VU founder Raymond Rodgers brought suit* against my publisher (but not me) three years ago, we immediately did a search at google.com

At the time, the great majority of 'hits' related to rap singer Freaky Tah, aka Raymond Rodgers. Today's search found a much smaller percentage of Freaky hits.

For the record, we are certain that the gentleman in Vancouver is not the same person as the singer for Lost Boyz (who, indeed, is no longer among the living).

But at least now it is known why the Acknowledgements section of Bears' Guide 14 includes Mr. Tah.
________

*The suit, as I've mentioned, for something like $6,000, was dismissed before ever coming to trial, because you can't sue for libel in Canadian small claims courts.

 

looking for a way to transfer credits from previous college courses I found the Vancouver University World Wide Web site. I sent a letter to the Minister of Education in Canada and here is her reply.

Dear Mr. Baker:

Thank you for your e-mails of October 3, 2002, sent to the Ministry of
Education, inquiring about the status of Vancouver University Worldwide.
Your inquiries have been forwarded to the Ministry of Advanced Education,
and I have been asked to respond on behalf of the Honourable Shirley Bond,
Minister of Advanced Education.

There is no authority under the University Act or any other piece of British
Columbia legislation for "Vancouver University" or any of its affiliated
organizations, including "Vancouver University Worldwide", to grant degrees
in British Columbia. Further, the Degree Authorization Act (the Act) was
introduced in the Provincial legislature this spring to provide a mechanism
for private and out of province post-secondary institutions to apply for
Ministerial consent to grant degrees in British Columbia. The Act received
Royal Assent in May 2002, and will come into force later this year. Under
the Act, "Vancouver University" and "Vancouver University Worldwide" would
have to undergo a quality assessment process in order to obtain Ministerial
consent to grant degrees in British Columbia.

Until the provisions of the Act are brought into force, the Private
Post-Secondary Education Commission (PPSEC) remains the agency that oversees
private post-secondary institutions that operate in British Columbia.
Neither "Vancouver University" nor any of its affiliated organizations,
including "Vancouver University Worldwide", are currently registered or
accredited by PPSEC.

Should you require any further clarification, please contact AVED staff at:

[email protected]

Thank you again for your inquiry.

Sincerely,


Debbie Andersen
A/Director
Private Institutions and Sector Initiatives Branch
Ministry of Advanced Education

cc: Honourable Shirley Bond
Minister of Advanced Education

 

I believe Robert's letter from the Ministry of Advanced Education puts this issue at rest. Unless VU receives consent from the Private Post-Secondary Education Commission (PPSEC) of British Columbia, VU can be classified as a diploma mill.

 

Unlike the strange system in the USA, it is much clearer what is a degree mill outside the USA. Assuming the letter is real (which I don't doubt) VU sure looks like an illegal degree mill to me.

 

VU claims their status has been confirmed by the decision of a BC Supreme Court judge, who declined to enjoin VU's activities and further found that VU had been "discriminatorily treated as compared with other private post-secondary entities."

http://www.vcn.bc.ca/wunicols/corp.htm#politics

I've asked VU for a copy of the decision, but they report it was oral, and that no written decision was issued.

Also, VU's version of events regarding Dr. Bear appear to differ significantly from his.

http://www.vcn.bc.ca/wunicols/tenspeed.htm

First, it appears the jurisdictional issue was resolved in VU's favor. The implication is that the matter ultimately was settled to VU's satisfaction. Second, assuming the confidentiality of that settlement, do Dr. Bear's comments here constitute a violation?

 

Thank you, Mr. Racer. I was not aware of the "narrower definition" matter. It seems quite unusual to me that an important ruling by a judge is oral only (in other words, you had to be there and write it down for yourself?), and does not appear anywhere in writing. Is this typical in the Canadian court system?

I was in no way a part of VU's suit against Ten Speed,* and was never asked to sign or participate in any confidentiality agreement.

________
* The suit, as I understood it, was because VU objected to being included on a list, at the back of the then-current "Bears' Guide to Degrees by Mail and Internet," of schools that were not included among the 100 schools chosen for that edition. We put that list in, because after earlier editions, we used to get deluged with mail from people saying, "Why didn't you include [such and such school]?" The list which VU objected to being on include a very wide range of schools, from RA schools like Columbia University in NY to non-RA like California Coast. There was nothing pejorative about the list, and the intro to the list made that clear.

 

Thank you, Dr. Bear. I am not familiar enough with the Canadian legal system to know what is or is not typical up there, but I can tell you this:

In BC the “Supreme Court” is the equivalent of a trial court, what Californians would recognize as the “Superior Court.” (New York state also denominates their trial courts as “Supreme,” as you might have noticed when you watch “Law & Order” on TV.) In most states usually only the appellate court decisions would be “reported,” i.e., published for public consumption and legal precedent.

Notwithstanding this, in BC many of the trial court opinions are published. I was surprised to discover a great many of what down here would be considered fairly routine matters treated to thoughtful written opinions, which they call “Reasons for Judgment.” See http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/Sc/sc-main.htm Unfortunately, the decision in this case does not appear to be among them.

I think my reaction to learning of the “oral” decision probably was similar to yours. I asked VU for a copy of the case, or a case number so I could look it up myself, or even just the name of their lawyer so I could ask him for the particulars. I received no response from VU to that request. However, I’ve also asked the BC PPSEC for similar info, and received no response either. I can see why, being vindictive government weasels, they wouldn’t want too many people to learn about it, but I can’t understand why VU isn’t broadcasting it from the rooftops.

In Canada, as in most socialist or semi-socialist countries, the government funds and operates the major universities. For this reason they don’t much care for the competition afforded by more efficient private schools. Unlike the US regional accrediting organizations, which operate more like private clubs that can do little other than withhold their approval, in Canada the full weight and boundless resources of the government can be dropped on anyone who dares to compete with them. So obviously I have a great deal of sympathy for Dr. Rodgers and company, and so, apparently, did Judge Maczko.

From my discussions with the BC PPSEC I conclude it’s very likely that the government will make another run at VU whenever the new Degree Authorization Act kicks in. Not having a written decision after the previous encounter would seem like a potential problem for VU. A different judge might have a different perspective. Judges being politicians, even the same judge might just altogether “forget” his previous decision if his interests are served.

Dr. Bear, I have the greatest respect for you and the highest regard for the service you do for the public. For that reason I find it difficult to ignore what appears to be a bit of unfair and uninformed commentary on your part. As somebody noted earlier, the VU website does exude a certain vitriol. (As I said to VU in an email, who edits your website, Ted Kaczynski?) But in fairness, these guys have every right to be sore. That they’re getting it from the government is wrong, but typical. That they also seem to be getting it from you, and the folks who follow your lead here, is also wrong, and not the least bit typical. I realize you can’t investigate every tiny aspect of every school in the world, but if what they’re saying is true, these guys seem to be getting a royal shafting.

How many “mills” have received court decisions upholding their right to issue degrees, and chastising the government to boot? Based on what I know about this, and you, I’d expect to find Dr. Bear solidly in VU’s corner, not making snide, petty and apparently erroneous comments.

Finally, with regard to your participation in the settlement with VU, I don’t know what was or was not agreed to by the parties, but that’s your name on the front of Ten Speed’s book. I’m not trying to stir up trouble for you, but I believe it’s called “apparent agency.” The clear implication on the VU website was that the publisher agreed to remove VU from the list of “mills,” in return for dismissal. Even if no money changed hands, that result is not exactly my idea of getting off clean, as you seem to imply. My point being, Ten Speed apparently agreed not to talk about it, but the guy whose name is on their book is telling everyone the action was dismissed because VU stupidly tried to sue for libel in small claims court. That seems to be factually incorrect, and it seems to be the sort of thing that would annoy the heck out of people who are easily annoyed and already getting more than their share of grief from the government as well. It’s seems like both a credibility issue for you, as well as just common sense. If you’re going to talk about it at all, why not talk accurately? If it’s “legal stuff” of which, as you state, you are "not aware" or otherwise don’t understand (who really does?), why not keep it to yourself, rather than taking bogus cheap shots?