Utility of a University of Wales validated degree?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by datapoly, Feb 24, 2009.

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  1. datapoly

    datapoly Member

    I came across some articles and realized that degree validated by UOW is not exactly the same like the one from for e.g University of Wales, Newport. http://www3.newport.ac.uk/

    The validated degree is confered by UOW Validation Services -> http://www.wales.ac.uk/defaultpage.asp?page=e7062

    E.g of degree program are the MBA and Bsc (Hon) in Business offered by RDI USA ->www.rdi-usa.com/

    Question : How is such validated degree compare to a B&M University in UK?

    The articles here make me feel quite uncomfortable ->
    http://dcscience.net/?p=259

    http://forums.degreeinfo.com/archive/index.php/t-22400.html
     
  2. Magister

    Magister New Member

    The cold hard truth is that such UOW validated degrees will NEVER be the same as the B&M degrees.

    This is probably why Cardiff University (used to be called the University of Wales, Cardiff) - the top university under the University of Wales system, changed its official name in 2004. The UOW degree was losing its prestige due to all these cheap degree validation...

    Similarly, a University of London External Degree will NEVER be the same as a B&M University of London degree. The plain truth is that the recognition and prestige of the degree depends on the college you attended (e.g. KCL, LSE and UCL) and not the University of London itself.
     
  3. datapoly

    datapoly Member

    I agree that UOW modus operandi on validation will eventually get into more scandal. A UOW validated degree may not be a good long term investment.

    However, I don't think comparing UOL external degree with UOW VD is a good comparison. UOL external programs have been around for more than 150 years. Exams are uniformly set and well know to be rigorous.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  4. Magister

    Magister New Member

    I'm not comparing a UOL external degree with a UOW validated degree. I was simply trying to say that there is always a difference between a B&M degree and a external or validated degree - this is particularly the case in the UK. But I agree with your view that a UOW validated degree may not be a good long term investment.

    But if you think that a UOL external degree will enjoy the same prestige and recognition as a UOL B&M degree, you are not being honest with yourself. Having studied and lived in the UK for more than 10 years, I've seen/heard plenty of cases where UOL external degrees were not acknowledged by employers. Although a lot of employers will acknowledge the degree, a lot also don't - this is particularly the case with accounting firms, banks, law firms and multinational companies. Having been around for 150 years or known to be rigorous does not mean it is not inferior...

    There is a reason why the Open University (UK) is more popular than the University of London External System. In fact, most of the locals would go to the Open University - while UOL External System's students are mainly from the former countries of the British Commonwealth. This is because locals know that a University of London External Degree is NOT a 'real' University of London degree in a 'practical' sense.
     
  5. JEEE

    JEEE New Member

    your an idiot through and through. A validated degree and a degree from a brick and motar school is the same darn thing. The degree certificate itself is almost always exactly the same no matter the method of instruction or the campus, except for the university of london external system where their degrees mentioned it is done externally. other than that, for most universities there is no distinction between a distance learner, part time, twinning or full time on campus students. they are admitted to the same degree

    the uni of wales has been around since 1900s and has been validating degrees since it started, so that is 100 years for you.

    whether you study at a university of wales consitutent college or a higher education college working with the university of wales, you are admitted to the same degree.. ie a university of wales degree. the method and location of instruction is different but the degree you are admitted to is the same.

    by the way, the university of london is just like the uni of wales, both are FEDERAL UNIVERSITIES. Meaning they exist to grant degrees and leave the teaching to its colleges. I guess the validation system is doing ok, because Kings college, Royal Holloway, London School of Economics, ICL, London Business Schools are all TOP SCHOOLS IN THE WORLD. the external degree from the uol is the same as the internal degree although it mentions that it is done externally on the degree itself. the exams for external and internal students are the same you fool and internal students get assessed 100% based on year end exams just like the external students. except one goes to school to learn, the other learns from textbooks at his home.

    In fact, tons of other top british unversities other than the uni of london and wales validate degrees from private colleges in the uk and has been doing so for many many years. The QAA a british agency accredits the universities and ensure that quality is kept throughout the validation process.

    you obviously have ZERO knowledge of how british education works...or how accredition works for education

    the amount of ignorance on this forum from what i see are americans is amazing. morons lol. the universities in the Uk are all public unis (except for BPP) who funded by public monies and are not mainly motivated by profit. They validate degrees to allow a larger number of people who cannot study at the compuses itself have access to quality british education. they are not like the private hungry for profit universities you are so familiar with in the us.

    the degree you get is recognised by every government the world because it is accredited by the uk government body called the QAA. as for employer recognition, private individuals always have freedom to choose their employees based on any criteria they want. they can also discriminate against degrees from certain universities or degrees done via distance learning, part time, twinning, on campus etc...its up to them. they can also discriminate against short ppl, ppl with curly hair, big tongues, big lips, pimples on face.. blah blah blah...but hey, if it good enough for the governments of the world, then it is good enough for me.
     
  6. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Niri Giri Wari. Zey Zey Zey

    JEEE may be unaware of the rather devastating investigative reports on the University of Wales' validation services aired last year by the most popular investigative journalism program on BBC Wales, Dragon's Eye . . . or the subsequent report by Kizmet, in this forum last November that more than half of the constituent universities of the University of Wales have withdrawn from the alliance, and changed their names:

    University of Wales, Bangor: now Bangor University
    University of Wales, Swansea: now Swansea University
    University of Wales, Cardiff: now Cardiff University
    University of Wales, Aberystwyth: now Aberystwyth University

    Further, a friend who teaches at the University of Wales, Lampeter recently wrote me that they, too, are planning to withdraw from the University of Wales and merge with Trinity College, Carmarthen to form an entirely new school.

    Well all I can say to this is:

    Backshe Odinthorog. Backshe Odinthorog.
    Niri Giri Wari. Niri Giri Wari.
    Zey Zey Zey
    Bing Bang Odin. Bing Bang Odin.
    Io Dewi. Io Dewi. Io Dewi.
    Dewi Sant. Dewi Sant. Dewi Sant.
    Hooray!

    PS: No, I'm not going (any further) bananas: this is the "college yell" of U of Wales College, Lampeter. You'll find it on Wikipedia.
     
  7. gonenomad

    gonenomad New Member

    The University of Wales Lampeter has a Master in World Religions that looks like it would be very interesting. It is available via part-time non-residential study. I noticed that it is already taught in conjunction with Trinity College, Carmarthen.

    I might have to do this next.
     
  8. JEEE

    JEEE New Member

    I am aware that the university of wales has received a limited confidence in one area during its recent qaa audit. i have also heard of the name changes of aber and cardiff. but while these colleges seek their own degree awarding powers, are you aware that Glyndwr and Swansea Metropolitan etc have joined the uni of wales.

    at the end of the day, i stand by the uni of wales. it has given me a great education and without it, i would never have had the opportunity to go on to complete postgraduate degrees in other universities. if you have the money and time and talent by all means go to oxbridge. but if you are like myself previously, the uni of wales provides good accredited education for distance learners at a very reasonable price. at the end of the day, it is about what is suitable for you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2009
  9. Daniel Luechtefeld

    Daniel Luechtefeld New Member

    Just as I suspected - it's a cash cow. University of Wales gets a cut for each student in affiliated programs that it validates. They've had oversight problems related to marketing:

    "A spokesman for the federal University of Wales, which receives a £350 registration fee for each of about 70 students enrolled each year on the [German institution] Allfinanz programme[....]"

    http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=168794&sectioncode=26
     
  10. JEEE

    JEEE New Member


    Is this story from 7 years back even real? Even if it were real Daniel, the story did mention that the uni of wales did take reasonable steps to retify the situation. it would be absurb to think the uni of wales has full control over every aspect of its partner colleges' operations but to see the uni taking prompt and good measures to resolve any issues that crops up, that is highly commendable.

    I didnt know the uni of wales received 350 gbp for each student. I dont know if this is real or just falsified. If it was true, the uni of wales should probably consider increasing the fees because that is too darn cheap for a quality uk university education that is recognised worldwide! 350 gbp wont even get you a credit hour in the lousiest university in the US and that is all they are receiving for each student? Incredible.

    I have used my BA from the uni of wales to apply for many postgraduate courses and am happy to say that top ranking universities in australia and europe have all offered me a place based on my wales degree. of course you got to have decent grades too to get offers from top unis. With my wales degree I have completed postgraduate degrees and am truly very greatful to the university of wales for giving me a chance to receive such great education at such good prices.

    I hope my posts have helped those who are considering a british distance learning degree.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2009
  11. jaer57

    jaer57 New Member

    You've insulted members of this board, deemed most Americans as morons, and managed to butcher the English language while doing so. I hope your degree wasn't in marketing...
     
  12. Daniel Luechtefeld

    Daniel Luechtefeld New Member

  13. Daniel Luechtefeld

    Daniel Luechtefeld New Member

    It gets better: one can attend the Imperial/U of London External distance MBA program for only $33,000. This is only slightly more expensive than many AACSB-accredited programs at US state universities.

    http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/business-school/programmes/distance-learning-mba
     
  14. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    JEEE and archy the cockroach, two of a kind.
     
  15. JEEE!

    JEEE! New Member

    I fully disagree with you. A UOL external degree for all official and legal purpose is the same as a UOL internal degree. They are the same degree. If you read the external degree itself you will see it mentions that there are no distnction between the external and internal degree and all students are admitted to the same degree.

    But yes, i do see what you are driving at. Sadly, there are bigot employers and individuals who do view internal and external students differently. Some private employers would find that the method of instruction or the campus you attend while doing your degree to be important to them. this is wrong and should be changed. so even though you have an LSE internal student and a uol external student who are admitted to the same degree, some bigoted employers would choose the lse internal student. some employers will also choose you based on your facial hair, your height, weight, face, etc ...its their private perrogative and they have their individual freedom to do so.

    from what i see, plenty of employer will employ someone with an external degree so even if a select few discriminates , just find someone who doesnt. i know of plenty of uol external students myself. they have all gone on to find very good jobs at top notch banks , blue chip companies, etc. with the uol external degree, some have gone on to become head judges and MPs.

    i know for a fact that all governments in the world recognise the UOL external degree for immigration and employment purposes in the civil sector. so if the governments accredit it, its good enough for me.

    BTW, it is common for constituent colleges of federal universities to seek their own degree awarding powers and leave the federal university. it is not unique to the OUW. In the UOL, you have kings college, UCL, LSE all seeking their own degree awarding power. it is just a natural progression for some constituent colleges. while aber and cardiff have left the ouw, swansea metro and glyndwr have joined.

    At the end of the day, it is what is suitable for you. If you want "prestige" by all means go the oxbridge or harvard. but for people like me distance learning works out just fine. I felt i was too old to go back to university and i didnt want to go back because having studied at top schools before, i realised that it was all about competition and not education. I was spending all my time dealing with crazy kids and the stress from competition rather than enjoying my education. i was burnt out and unhappy. BTW i was a decent student, scoring the top 10% whenever i was in school/

    distance learning was the solution for me. i was happy and felt for the first time in my life i was truly learning instead of competing. i read and read for hours and truly enjoyed it. there was no competition and i learnt better at my own pace. had i studied on campus, i would be burnt out by the second year frizzling with depression after dealing with so many neurotics and pyschos on campus.

    of course, you will rarely see an 18yo kid doing distance learning because they dont have the discipline to study. they need to be dragged to school, forced to sit down in lectures to actually learn something and that is why i felt top unversities are filled with crazy kids! i didnt want to be near them or have to deal with them.

    i have gone on to do my postgrad and soon hopefully i will become a doctor. it was the solution for me. i have also been able to migrate and received PRs from two very nice countries, in which one i will hopefully become a citizen of soon! i have a decent teaching job and i know with the current recession if things turn really bad, i can go overseas and find a well paid job easily because of my education done through distance learning. I have nothing but gratitude for the uni of wales which has given me a chance to persue my undergrad at such a reasonable price.

    for the more abitious and those who are into elitism, go ahead and do a degree from oxbridge no one's stopping you!
     
  16. Dave C.

    Dave C. New Member

    Just wanted to apologise to the American majority here. Some of us Brits can actually construct sentences and capatilise, not to mention engage in polite discourse.

    This JEEE! is obviously a troll and should best be ignored. Hopefully he'll go away soon, he's probably got to abuse some fellow illiterates on YouTube anytime now.

    Peace,

    Dave C.
     
  17. Magister

    Magister New Member

    It's not the same thing if the degree certificate is different. Mentioning it's done 'externally' is already a telling difference (at least in the eyes of many employers).

    So?

    Lehman Brothers is more than 150 years old.

    KCL, LSE, ICL and UCL now all offer their own degrees (instead of the University of London degree). Does it ever make you wonder that there is something wrong with the validation system? If it is a good system, if it is doing fine, then why did the top-4 constituent colleges stopped granting the University of London degree?

    There are critics saying that the QAA audit approach as being inappropriate for measuring education. In fact, many regard it as a failure - expensive, damaging to efficiency, and probably ineffective. This failure is now widely accepted by all parties including the government and the QAA. I have included an article for your reference.

    http://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/peter.andras/CAEPS.pdf

    I've studied and worked in the UK. In fact, I've been both a B&M student of one of the colleges of the University of London and its external system. I am certainly not an expert of UK education. But I know about its accreditation and education system. QAA is flawed and certain parts of the education system is in need of a reform.

    We might not be experts. But we are here to learn and contribute - in a sensible way.
     
  18. ebbwvale

    ebbwvale Member

    The University of London External does not give its degrees away. As a past student, I can advise you that the pass rate in the law degree for stage one first timers was 22 percent. The quality of the learning materials was very high and the examinations were like crossing the Sahara with one water bottle. First class honours (UK equivalent of an A) was given once in the three year period I was enrolled.

    The essential element of the degree was that it is classed as a qualifying degree to practice law in the UK. Granted extra study was required, but these additional studies were the prerequisites for all qualifying law degrees, even Oxford and Cambridge. The degrees are also recognized in other jurisdictions. Some may require extra studies because of local law variations. Various colleges of the UOL offer the external courses. Their prestige goes with the degree.

    The fact that it has been successfully engaged in distance learning for about 150 years suggests that the degrees are widely accepted. I suspect the reason that the Open University is more utilized by locals is that it offers more instructional support and perhaps the exams are not quite as awesome, albeit again of excellent quality.

    Distance learning is not viewed through the same paradigm as the US. Without distance learning, the British Empire would not have lasted as long. Colonies needed professionals and not all could travel to the UK. Professional Board examinations were also mainly undertaken in a distance learning format. An accountancy qualification, for example, usually resulted from a period of work in an accountancy firm and passing professional board examinations.

    Comparisons with US universities is a little like comparing apples with oranges. The surrounding systems are extremely different. It must be remembered that a Bachelor's degree in the Commonwealth is usually the professional qualification. Most people do not move beyond it. There is, for example, a Bachelors with honours that allows you to straight to a PHD without requiring a Masters Degree.

    I know little of the University of Wales, but I would not draw too much from the disassociation of various educational bodies which go on to form their own universities. There are likely to be issues of finance and prestige involved. The University of Wales coverage may be a process of auspicing until the institution can be recognised for its own worth. It is a common business practice to spin off business arms into separate companies when they can stand on their own feet. Educational institutions are the same. Why pay a fee to a parent body when you can get the money yourself? A sort of decolonization.
     
  19. JEEE!!!

    JEEE!!! New Member

    Magister,

    I have already mentioned in one of my previous posts somewhere in this forum that on campus students and distance learning students are almost always awarded exactly the same degree with the exception of UOL. If the word "external" on the UOL degree transcript bothers you so much, why did you do a UOL external degree when there are so many other distance learning degrees that provide the same certificate no matter if you studied via distance or on campus?

    In fact many of my personal friends did not do the UOL external degree because just like what you said, they didnt want to have the word external on their degree transcript. They went on to do degrees from lancaster, nottingham, durham etc.

    If you have done a UOL external degree then I am sure you notice your degree transcript mentions that both internal and external students are admitted to the same degree and there is to be no distinction between the two.

    If you have indeed worked and studied in the UK as you claim, then you would know that validation is very very common.

    It is not only the UOL or the UOW that validates degrees, there are so many top UK universities that validate degrees. Many of their partner colleges are private and for profit too. Think nottingham, liverpool, york, birmingham, manchester, hull, UCD, edexcel, lancaster, loughborough, bradford, warwick ...the list goes on and on and all these are world reowned universities.

    It is not for me or you to say that the QAA or the validation process is inadequate. Even if you truly do feel so and would like to improve things, there is nothing much you can do about it can you? Unless you would like to try getting into the house of commons and the cabinet?

    Someone started by criticising the UOW which I refuted. You have now took it one step further by criticising the validation system which almost every uni in the UK uses. That is beyond the scope of my argument. I merely wanted people to know that the UOW and many other distance learning universities from the UK are decent unis and they do provide a good education, which I believe I have adequately done so.

    I have already told the folks here that distance learning degrees are recognised by all legitimate governments around the world. If you want to immigrate or work in the civil service using your distance learning degree it is as good as an on campus degree. I cant really stop you from worrying that a UOL external degree or any other distance learning degree would not be recognised by private employers because indeed some bigoted employers might not view them in good light for whatever warped reasons.

    So please, if you want a degree which ALL private employers will revere, work hard, study in oxbridge on campus. But even so, bear in mind that your employer might find that you are too fat or old or ugly and make you redundant. At the end of the day, you are just losing sleep over nothing really.
     
  20. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I guess that my general reaction would be to treat a British-validated degree as a real and meaningful degree.

    But I can't say how the degree would impress me without knowing how it was earned and where. I wouldn't necessarily assume that the validated degree is identical to one earned back home at the validating university. Teaching, facilities, support and in some cases the degree syllabus would be different.

    I do worry that some (not all) British universities have been trying to turn their validation units into profit-centers. The U. of Wales validates more than 100 separate institutions all around the world, permitting them to effectively award U. of Wales degrees. Legitimate questions can be asked about how effectively Wales manages and oversees that empire. The QAA doesn't seem particularly concerned, but several institutions that have appeared on the Wales list don't exactly inspire my confidence.

    One thing that particularly worried me was the U. of Wales outsourcing quality assurance over Wales validated schools in South Asia to an Indian firm that has some kind of association with the rather doubtful Adam Smith University.

    I notice that there's still a link on one of the firm's webpages reading "Representative of the Validation Unit of the University of Wales, UK", but the link doesn't seem to be working.
     

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