University of London comparison

The advantage of a UoL-Bachelor degree programs is that it mirrors the traditional three year bachelor course of most English Universities and thus it is very popular in the ex-british colonies of Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong. Their LLB degree use to qualify one for admission into the bar of these countries. I believe the LLB may still qualify one for the New York, England and Australian bar with conditions attached (please do not take my word for it, do check first).

It is also a very cost effective program- due to its long history,many learning centres run support programs with tuition and lectures thrown in for less than USD2k per year. Further the assessment structure, a series of examinations at the end of a year could be appealing to working adults.

Downside - it does not offer the broad base education of an American college degree. 12 subjects, 4 per year (although in much much greater depth) vs 30-40 subjects of a typical American programs. It is a do-or-die 3-hour essay question paper for each subject at end of the year so paasing the examination could be a challenging experience.

Even with a good honours degree, I'm aware good American and even Australian universities may not allow direct admission into their doctorate programs - you need to complete an extra year first as they sort of frown on three year bachelor programs.

Sorry not aware of any web site involving UOL students.

Billy

 

Although I am not pursuing a MBA at this time, I, personally would seriously consider University of London's program. While as Karlos and others have pointed out, Royal Holloway College is not London Business School, it so happens that it still ranks in the top quartile of the (London) Times "Good Universities" yearly ratings.

We cannot loose insight however into perhaps the most important issue. Does the degree meet your needs today and will it likley meet your needs tomorrow? (Dare I say it---if you don't have a vision of the future you, eh, will make a perfect corporate manager! Really--neither do they.)

As a general statement, I sense that many people on this board (not necessarily on this thread) are simply seeking an alternate way of earning a degree. Content or quality may not be that important to them as long as the degree is legit. If that is the case, the choices are vass.

If content is important, then you have to explore your options more carefully. Royal Holloway-UoL offers only a generalist degree. If you have a need or a want to specialize in another area of business (accounting, finance, etc.), then this MBA may not be for you. I have no idea of the quality of course material.

May I also be "alternative" here and suggest that people also look at still another option---their local schools? Not only might they be closer to work and home than you think, they might also offer convenient class schedules (evenings, weekends, etc.) that are workable. In addition, name recognition will not be a problem. Well, you know what I mean.

If you work and live in the New York City area, consider Baruch College. Not only will you pay ridiculously low tuition, you will also earn a degree well known and well respected in the metro area. Baruch only offers their MBA in the evenings and on weekends. NYU, Pace, Rutgers, and many others also offer evening and weekend classes.

People on this discussion board often overlook the residential option. There are many people who juggle busy work and family lives and still attend residential programs. It is work-able and it is do-able. Don't be discouraged, you too can do it. You may just need a shot of confidence!

If, however, you absolutely cannot attend a residential program, or if they is a personal reason for wanting to attend a school via DL, then go for it. What could possibly be wrong with an UoL degree? You think your boss in Chicago is going to believe that after work you were going off to University of Maryland every night to earn your MBA? People who know you are going to ask, how did you earn a degree from _______? when you never left town? anyway.I am only suggesting that if you are contemplating a MBA (or any other degree for that matter), consider all of your options, not just DL.

Regards,

Jeffrey

 

Actually, in response to your issues, I would generally recommend HW of the UoL for several reasons:

1) HW exams are also marked "the British way" and are therefore I assume are "tough" and "traditional".
2) HW offers the opportunity to individualize the program through specializations.
3) HW has better pedagogy for DLs, in other words they have spent a truck load of money on materials designed for DLs whereas the UoL will send you some meagre course outlines and tell you to buy a textbook from Amazon.com.
4) The UoL degree will have "external programme" on it, i.e. the degree is not exactly the same as the RH degree unlike the HW degree which is the same no matter how you take it.
5) A huge, worldwide student body.

and finally, picking an MBA program by how the title of the school sounds when you say it has got to be some of the worst advice I have seen in some time (incidently, if you don't like how Heriot-Watt sounds maybe you should try "Edinburgh Business School" vs "Royal Holloway").

PS. The UoL program is a good program but, as noted above, they are a step or two behind HW in several areas.

 

I can't comment on their MBA. But the University of London has prepared what I consider to be the best introductory philosophy texts that I have ever seen for their external bachelors in philosophy.

They are divided up into 'Philosophy 1' and 'Philosophy 2', and consist of specially commissioned articles by some pretty stellar names: Ned Block and Gabriel Segal on the philosophy of psychology, Michael Dummett on the philosophy of mathematics, Paul Williams on Indian philosophy, Bernard Williams on ethics, Roger Scruton on the rationalists are just a few. They are edited by A.C. Grayling, published by Oxford U.P. and are available at $20 US each (a steal for a 900 page book!) through (yes) Amazon. One needn't be enrolled to buy them either, they are sold to the general public. I grabbed a copy of each for my bookshelf.

 

Good afternoon!

According to Ordinance 12 in the U of L Statutes and Ordinances, the citation of a degree (e.g., in a CV or in an "about the author" section in a publication) from the University "shall be by the title or abbreviation" along with "in parenthesis, the name of the University and, where applicable, of the College by which the award was made." Further, first (undergraduate) and taught postgraduate degrees "may be augmented by the addition of the names of one or more disciplinary specialisms..."

Let's take the example of a student studying organizational behaviour at U of L, and the college in charge of this specialism is Birkbeck. An external student in the master's degree programme would write:
MSc Organizational Behaviour (University of London)

On the other hand, a person who took the programme as a residential degree would be able to cite the degree as follows:
MSc Organizational Behaviour (University of London, Birkbeck College)

If one went on to a research programme, however, the disciplinary specialism would be omitted. Also, since the research programmes would involve an award by the College (no distinction made here as to part-time or full-time, internal versus external), one would list the relevant doctorate as shown:
PhD (University of London, Birkbeck College)

It appears the U of L ordinances support the distinctions in Billy's example, and they provide very specific guidelines as to the listing of one's degrees.

 

Dear J.,

Hi, there!

I have always being intrigued about the way the specifics of a Ph.D. certificate from UL External Programme are entered. If I understand correctly, you are stating that the external Ph.D. certificate is exactly the same as those earned by residential students. Thus, I suppose that the words "Awarded by the External Programme" are excluded. Could you please confirm this to me?

Yes, I know that the external Ph.D. programmes have been cancelled, but I hope that they are reinstated in a no so distant future (or even in a moderate distant future). If J. is correct, then an external Ph.D. programme from UL would be my greatest dream academically.

Best regards,


Karlos Alberto Lacaye
[email protected]

P.S.: Oh, my! Great that I always proofread my posts. The word external Ph.D. was incorrectly written as extraanal Ph.D.

 

Wouldn't you be better off with a doctorate from a US school... like the University of Pheonix?

 

Br. Caballero --

The External Programme Ph.D. has been cancelled, and I don't know if it will be reinstated, but it is my understanding that the lead colleges are very open to the possibility of negotiating low-residency research doctorates. King's College is actually on my list of prospective UK schools to check out as far as a possible Ph.D. in religious studies goes, and you may wish to look into them yourself.

Good luck.


Peace,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

 

Dear Lewchuck,

Thank you for your response.

In response to your question, not necessarily! My intended area of reseach is Latin American Economic History, and this subject is virtually unavailable in the United States within an Economic History framework. Besides, if the London external Ph.D. doesn't work, I am considering studying residentially, yes, even at the University of London. Why? Because the University of London requires (or used to) that a student has a London degree prior to registering for an external Ph.D., so I would be spending money on two degrees. At any rate, I am still kind of light years to actually do this, so we will see what happens.

No, at this time, I am not considering the University of Phoenix. Once I get my next degree, I will post it. In the meantime, I am just studying for a certificate from Canada.

Do you have any other interesting question? I really don't know how to politely tell you that I strongly support US degrees. With that said, I don't mean "any" US school, but degrees from schools that are known and somewhat reputable.

On a related note, does it make sense for me to come to this country as a non-Anglo immigrant and return to Costa Rica or to any other country in Central America without any US degrees? I can imagine my friends there, "So, Lacaye, what were you doing in the States? Just working part-time and not studying anything?...You know, Lacaye, you would have been better off studying at the University of Costa Rica?". Come on, Lewchuck, I think you understand the value of coming back to my country with US degrees, continue studying there at a distance, and then move back to the United States or to any othe country to get my terminal degree. Is there anything wrong with my plans? It could also be possible that you don't understand this since, I believe, you don't have plans to come back to Canada. Don't misinterpret me, please! There is nothing wrong with living in the United States; at the same time, I also think that there is nothing wrong with living in Costa Rica, or for that matter, in Canada.

What else? Oh, yes! Even though I am a strong supporter of RA degrees from known and somewhat reputable US shools, I also believe that there are genuine reasons for an American to study overseas. When? For example, when the degree is virtually not available in the United States, when a person can only study at a distance and his intended degree is not available in the United States, when the overseas degree is a lot cheaper than a domestic degree and the person in question cannot afford the intended domestic degree, and other reasons that I cannot think of at this precise moment, but I am sure that you know.

Lewchuck, I have never written postings specifying that this degree is better than this other degree, etc., etc., but since you don't understand my position, I would have to draw a comparison.

Yes, a HW MBA degree is world class, they don't discriminate between internal and external degrees, excellent faculty, etc., etc., but if I had a choice, I would study this MBA degree residentially at the University of Florida which is the best public school we have in Florida. Again, please don't misinterpret me! I am sure that your HW MBA degree was very useful to you and it served your needs, but I am talking about my personal situation and not your personal situation.

Respectfully yours,


Karlos Alberto Lacaye
[email protected]

P.S.: Readers, please excuse my grammar mistakes here since I am really tired.

 

I thought there was a requirement that applicants for admission to UOL Ph.D. programs (any lead college) have an existing undergraduate or postgraduate UOL degree?

 

Dear Brother Tom,

Thank you very much for your help. Your postings are always plesurable for me to read.

As I was telling Lewchuck, I am considering studying residentially in the future at the University of London even if I top my credit cards since the external degrees were cancelled. Of course, I would be very interested in a low residency doctorate or a semi-residential doctorate instead of a full residential doctorate (to save money, Lewchuck), so I thank you very much for sharing this exciting information with me.

If I am permitted to give you advice, Br. Tom, if you have the opportunity to study a suitable degree from Birbeck, I would say that you go for it. I might be completely wrong, but I think that a UL degree has more acceptance than most OZ degrees in the United States (of course, there are exceptions to this, Lewchuck).

Thank you very much for your time and consideration.

Genuinely truly yours,


Karlos Alberto "El Brother Caballero" Lacaye
[email protected]

 

Ah! I've just read the preceding post from Karlos which contains a comment that seems to confirm this (vis-a-vis the external Ph.D. degree).

 

Well, Karlos posted again before the above hit the board, so the post referenced would be his penultimate post.

Anyway, I take it then that there is no such "previous degree" requirement if the doctorate is earned "in residency" - even "low residency" negotiable-to-no-residency, but still residency?

 

Karlos:

In addition, the University of Florida has a both a one-year and a two-year Internet MBA that can be accomplished with minimal residency requirements. It is, however a bit pricey, at between $26,500 and $30,000.00 plus travel costs.

Gus Sainz

 

Hey, Lawrie!

It might be so, but it should also be useful to study from or at UL to establish connections. I have even heard that UK mentors pay more attention to graduates from UK universities and perhaps from other EU universities as oppossed to Canadian or US graduates. Then again, I have also heard that "money talks"...

I agree in a way with Rich Douglas who said that universities are ultimately businesses, and if governments support them, it is because they want graduates to work and earn big money so that these same ex-students pay the "lost tuition" by way of taxes.

Best of the best,


Karlos Alberto Lacaye
[email protected]

 

Hello, Gus!

Is that price also applicable to a Florida resident? If it is so, then I would prefer, obviously for economic reasons, an MBA from Florida Gulf Coast University for around $5.000.

Regards,


Karlos Alberto Lacaye
[email protected]

 

Good afternoon, Karlos!

I see this thread has had a lot of activity since I visited yesterday, and there are several issues to address.

The first item is the notation on a diploma issued by the University of London. I have not seen an actual U of L diploma, and you may wish to contact the appropriate college at the University to confirm. My information comes from the University Statutes and Ordinances (including Ordinances 12 and 23) and the regulations from Birkbeck College. You are correct in noting that external students would have the "external" notation along with the extract from Statute 66(2) [Candidates granted degrees and other awards shall have attained the same academic standard irrespective of mode or place of study or examination] on the diploma. However, the external programme is not for PhD students -- these people are registered directly with a College. Ordinance 12 states that "in the case of a student registered at a College the diploma shall state the name of the College conferring the degree... the title of the award and... other distinction [e.g., with merit, with distinction] where appropriate and shall carry the signatures of the Head of College and the Vice-Chancellor [of the University of London]."

Merely studying by distance learning does not make one an external student. According to Ordinance 23, External Student status is for persons "registered for a programme of study… under the direction of the External System Lead Colleges Committee." Regular Student status is accorded to those pursuing a degree in a College or Institute of the University of London. O23 states "these may include persons registered by a College or an Institute who are following the whole or part of a course of study leading to [a degree or other award] under distance learning arrangements controlled by that College or Institute…"

I recently read the regulations and prospectus for my area of interest at Birkbeck College, and the only distinction they make for MPhil/PhD students is between full-time and part-time (not internal versus external). Further, the admissions process requires a PhD student to be admitted as a member of the College, and this would mean the student is directly registered at Birkbeck (in this case).

Please note that there are several hurdles for a prospective student to overcome, and admissions would be the first one. I don't know the answer to Lawrie's questions regarding previous U of L degrees as a prerequisite. In my area of interest, the external MSc prospectus notes that students can move on to the MPhil/PhD program, but there are no guarantees of a place.

Once you get in the program, there are annual residency requirements for all (part-time and full-time) students in the MPhil/PhD program. In addition to the annual report required of these students, it appears that one must present a paper each year at the Annual Research Student Conference. Further, their literature notes potential coursework requirements (theory, research methodology, related topics) depending on the student's background.

Karlos, it appears that you and I are searching for the same thing (although in different fields), and I am glad this group has provided so many interesting viewpoints. Although I have submitted a research proposal to a lesser-known UK school (and an application to a US school), I must admit the potential opportunity to earn a world-class degree is worth additional investigation.

Good luck in your search!

 

It appears the University of London holds Dr. Bear in high esteem. In the external programme application forms, there is a brief questionnaire asking how the applicant heard about the programme. The survey is divided into categories (i.e., newspaper/journal, personal contact, careers guide, or other source), and John Bear's Guide appears at the top of the list of guides.

I do recall reading something about good cooperation from the University of London back in the 1970s when Dr. Bear started publishing distance learning guides. It appears the impact of these publications can be felt around the world.