Tucson NBC story on Pacific Western U

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by galanga, Nov 18, 2004.

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  1. galanga

    galanga New Member

    Oh, this is a juicy one: hidden cameras, a few professors with fake degrees, some good footage of John Bear. The story runs about 4:30. Here is the URL; there's a video available too.

    It deals mostly with Pacific Western University, one of the stars of last spring's Senate hearings. There's a "campus" visit, and a certain amount of naming-of-names.

    G
     
  2. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Oooo-eee!
     
  3. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    These reports and investigations have to be so embarassing for the students, and alumni, but can you imagine being the ones that had their titles pay grades removed?
     
  4. galanga

    galanga New Member

  5. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    Great posting! And great story. People like John Bear are my hero - I like it when someone goes after and outs these clowns. Perhaps instead of just accepting a degree and assuming it is accredited, the government should publish a list of schools they consider legit and not recognize others. (of cours e the list can be amended)
     
  6. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    I understand the state of Oregon might be interested in your idea.
     
  7. galanga

    galanga New Member

  8. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    No kidding. When I was just a babe (up) in arms looking at DL, I almost got fooled by PWU. I googled for graduates and saw the rather long list. To me as greenhorn, it sounded impressive. Then I started getting suspicious, i.e., my Balkan race-memory finally kicked in thanks to the severe counsel I was reading on this very website. When I saw how Bear or Rich or somebody pointed out PWU's double-dealing on the topic of California-approval, I really started to get leery. When I was offered a dissertation supervisor who knew nothing about my field, that did it. The moral of the story: pick at your own quick satisfaction. Question your own rigor. Root, hog, or die.
     
  9. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    You coulda been 'Doc Janko', Unk.

    Actually it is impressive, in a way. It's evidence that lot of people in higher education in some capacity are willing to link this thing with their names, which is an endorsement of a sort. That's a legitimate positive data point.

    We have to weight that against the negative data points. And if we reach the conclusion tha PWU is fatally substandard, we are left with the problem of explaining Galanga's kind of data.

    Frankly, this is one of the things (there are many) that has gradually led me to a much more jaundiced view of college professors. Long ago I used to idolize them, believing that if education was really the way to improve one's self, then those guys with the advanced degrees who provided the education must be supermen of a sort.

    But while most of the professors I've met were good teachers and knew the material that they were teaching, too many times they were hopelessly clueless about things outside their specialty, including the broader aspects of higher education itself. Professors may not really be the people to ask about issues like accreditation. Most of them know less about it than the average Degreeinfo participant. They just attended a state university and took accreditation for granted.

    Sadly, professors' judgement may not be a very reliable guide for people like me. (I guess that trendy postmodern theory should have tipped me off about that... actually it did.)

    My heroic demigods with their aristocratic academic titles have been exposed as mere bumbling mortals. It's kind of sad, like when our parents grow old.
     
  10. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    Just think of the many that just respond to ads and never stumble onto a forum like this, or the negative publicity. The ones that do not know anything about accreditation, approval, etc. The ones that find out about such when it either embarasses them or hurts them. I would hate to be looking on the net now for a school without learning what I have in the past couple of years.
     
  11. JNelson467

    JNelson467 New Member

    " One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. "

    Good work Tucsan on the investigation
     
  12. PaulC

    PaulC Member

    Why am I the only one that thinks that Tucson piece was empty and near void of any substantive information a consumer could contemplate. They made the point that PWU was a mill, but they did not make the case. The extent of their case was to show an office with a few employees and imply that that constituted a sham.

    Why not show some details of existence or lack thereof of the program, courses, faculty, dissertations, etc.

    I thought the piece was empty of real value. Seemed typical local news "investigative reporting".
     
  13. PaulC

    PaulC Member

    Let me add, these "investigations" almost NEVER educate consumers on the most important bit of knowledge - how to determine if a "school" has legitimate accreditation. They include a terrific resource in the person of Dr. Bear, then they diminish his value to consumers by providing edited sound bites.
     
  14. Pacific Western University is a crush, but, now with a fresh proprietor, is in excellent pathway. So, is a mill in track.

    They achieve a membership of the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB) International, no shocking, just a membership, no accredited

    The programs are approved by the National Association of State Boards of Accountancy (NASBA), a highly regarded organization, no bad, but no accredited.


    I believe that the new owner deserves an chance, to put the things in order in that online institution of higher education.:confused:
     
  15. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Personally I disagree. PWU was a degree mill, and any one who would buy such a venture is unlikely to attempt to turn it legit. Instead, their plan is more likely to rake in as much money as possible. Has there ever been a degree mill that successfully turned legit? I can't think of any.
     
  16. clichemoth

    clichemoth New Member

    Harvard did some pretty mill-tastic things back in the 18th Century, like grant unlicensed doctorates to its own faculty. . . I'd say they're legit now. :)
     
  17. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Good point. Any examples in the last 100 years? :D
     
  18. jouster

    jouster New Member

    A little further back, but virtually every medical school except Hopkins was effectively a mill, for a while at least. IIRC, Harvard required a fifteen mintue oral exam for an MD degree.
     
  19. Good Changes in Pacific Western University

    I forget, also PWU is now a “certified Service Disabled Veteran Owned Business (SDVOB) that is approved to grant university degrees and provide specialized training programs. PWU is registered with the Department of Veteran's Administration”

    http://www.pwu-ca.edu/pages/sdvob.asp

    Damm, I have change my words, because I have to said and recognized that this on-line institution of higher education is not a mill, they continued in good track

    No bad, no substandard and also, no accredited
     
  20. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    PWU is an example of a degree mill, an example of the dangers of unaccredited institutions, and an example of why California state approval has become worthless. There have been a couple of very damning articles done on PWU by news organizations over the past couple years that has exposed the dirty truth about this diploma mill.
     

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