Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Charles Fout, Nov 27, 2022.
Trump was wrong when he said that, so what?
Trump advocated for guns to be taken away before due process. That means it doesn't matter whether it's justified under the law or by the circumstances.
I wasn't responding to Trump. I was responding to Charles.
I certainly think that restricting protection of unenumerated individual liberties to those that are "deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition" and "implicit in the concept of ordered liberty" are loopholes big enough for conservatives to take away any rights they wish. By that nonsense standard Loving v. Virginia, Obergefell, and Lawrence v. Texas would all have been decided against individual liberty rather than for it.
I know. I agree that Heller was correctly decided.
That makes him sound like your cult leader.
That makes him sound like your cult leader.[/QUOTE]
Please state any disagreement but, to me, that sort of commentary is uncalled for.
Actually, this is a fascinating case study. As stated, the murderer in this case was a known danger. No matter what it's called, there could have been a process and procedure in place to confiscate and or prevent the murderer from owning and/or acquiring weapons prior to his heinous acts. Properly executed, the due process could be observed throughout. There may even be arguments in situations such as this for due process arriving secondary or tertiary.
It's a slippery slope.
It is indeed. A discussion regarding stopping the carnage has to happen. We are far beyond our capacity for mass murder, be it by firearm or SUV.
Perhaps you didn't mean "liegeman for life"? But, your statement does sound like it is placing Trump into a cult leader type status.
I see what you are both suggesting but, really. Cult and Cult Leader are more than a stretch. <3
Perhaps but the Trump MAGA movement does have many similarities to a cult and cult leader. A cult is a group that shows extreme devotion to a charismatic leader. How many past Presidents would you characterize as you being their liegeman for life?
Characteristics of cult leaders
Below is an exhaustive list of the common characteristics of cult leaders:
1. They’re narcissistic
Cult leaders believe they’re special and are on a special mission to lead humanity to the light. They have fantasies of unlimited success and power. They’re constantly seeking the admiration of others and enjoy being the center of attention.
2. They’re charismatic
Charisma is the ability to draw people to you by your charms and personality. Cult leaders tend to be highly charismatic. They’re masters at expressing their feelings and making their followers relate to them. Their social skills are above par, and they tend to have a good sense of humor.
3. They’re dominant
As discussed earlier, projecting dominance is key to becoming a cult leader. Nobody wants to follow a submissive leader unsure of himself. A big part of dominance is putting down other dominant figures of society so you can look better than them.
This is why politicians, who share a lot of traits with cult leaders, demonize, belittle and defame their competitors.
4. They demand obedience
Projecting dominance helps cult leaders create a power imbalance between them and their followers. They’re high status, and their followers are of low status. If the followers obey and do as they’re told, they can raise their status too. They can be in a better place too. In this way, cult leaders prey upon the low self-esteem of their followers.
5. They claim to have supernatural powers
Cult leaders do this to highlight the power imbalance.
“I’m special. I have access to supernatural powers. You’re not special. So, you don’t.”
Cult leaders may claim they have magical powers like talking to aliens, healing, or telepathy.
6. They’re arrogant and boastful
Again, to remind their followers that they’re above them and to reinforce their high status.
7. They’re sociopaths/psychopaths
Lack of empathy is the hallmark of sociopathy/psychopathy. Sociopathic/Psychopathic tendencies make it easier for cult leaders to harm their followers without remorse.
8. They’re delusional
Some cult leaders may suffer from mental illnesses like schizophrenia or temporal lobe epilepsy. These mental health conditions can induce psychosis or hallucinations. So, when they say they can talk to aliens, they may genuinely believe they do. What’s interesting about this is that they can pull other people into their psychosis. As a result, the followers, driven by the conviction of their beliefs, may also see things that aren’t there. This condition is called shared psychotic disorder.
9. They’re persuasive
Cult leaders are excellent marketers. They have to be, or they won’t be able to gain followers and raise their status. They know what makes people tick. They know how to cater to the basic needs of their followers.
10. They’re authoritative and controlling
Cult leaders tend to control every little aspect of their followers’ lives. What to wear, what to eat, what to say, what not to say, and so on. This is done to keep the followers in line and reinforce their low status and low power.
Some cult leaders also use fear and blackmail to control and retain followers.
Jim Jones, a cult leader responsible for 900 deaths, forced his followers to sign fake confession documents of criminal acts to blackmail them and deter them from leaving.
11. They’re exploitative
The goal of all that authoritativeness and control is exploitation. Cult leaders make their followers submissive and weak to exploit them easily. Intelligent cult leaders exploit their followers in such a way that the followers don’t see it as exploitation. For instance, a cult leader may demand sexual access to female followers, making a ridiculous claim such as “This will purify our souls” or “It will bring us to a higher plane of existence”.
12. They’re underdogs
Who is desperate to boost their status in society?
Of course, low-status people. High-status people don’t need to raise their status any further.
This is why cult leaders are often underdogs. They’re rejects who failed at multiple attempts to raise their status and are now resorting to desperate and unethical measures.
Who can relate to an underdog?
Of course, other underdogs. Other low-status people.
This is a big reason why cult leaders attract so many followers.
Essentially, cult leaders and followers band together to ‘overthrow the system’ rewarding rival human groups. They want to overthrow other high-status people so they can be high status.
For this to happen, the cult leader must be an underdog so his followers can relate to him, but he must project dominance at the same time. An unusual mixture of being low status but projecting high status.
13. They’re intolerant of criticism
Cult leaders can become enraged when they’re criticized. To them, criticism is a threat to their high status. That’s why they resort to extreme measures to prevent any criticism. Those who criticize are severely punished, humiliated, or even eliminated.
14. They’re visionaries
Cult leaders infuse their followers with inspiration and hope for a better future (high status). They’re visionaries who want to take their followers to a better place where they can be blissful and better-off than non-followers.
These 14 characteristics seem to fit Donald J. Trump perfectly!
What would make you not follow Trump any longer?
As I already mentioned in this thread, Trump activates Democrats and independents even more than Republicans to go out and vote. This is why he's a loser in general elections.
I just hope that Fox News appreciates this and starts telling the full truth about him. That why he will lose his hold on the Republican party.
I want to argue that only thirteen of the fourteen apply, since I don't recall Trump ever making any supernatural claims. On the other hand, when the zeal of his followers inspires them to create imagery like this, who's to say?
One: Ronald Wilson Reagan, of course. May he rest in peace. I do have a tiny Ronaldus Maximus connection. During the 1980s my Seabee battalion had the good fortune of having a detachment assigned to the Reagan Ranch. One of the detachment's Chief Petty Officers had the great honor of President Reagan, himself, reenlisting him at the Reagan Ranch. Yours truly was given the privilege of preparing some of the certificates, and perhaps even the contract itself. Oh! how I miss my old Selectric III.
I'd love to learn more about POTUS ONE. I've heard the argument - We have had only one President- the rest are/were politicians.
The balderdash about Cult and Cult Leaders is just that... balderdash.
There is absolutely no fault in expressing patriotism.
No shame in rejoicing, though experiment, with room for improvement it still is, the United States is the greatest nation [in every measurable way] to ever grace the face of this earth
These sentences may be adjacent, but they're not related. Slavish devotion to a particular politician is not patriotism.
Anyway, nowadays someone saying the same things that Reagan did would be booed off the stage at a Republican convention.
"Slavish devotion?" What does that mean? Are you in any way suggesting an enslaved person could be devoted to some sort of overlord? I have begun my personal 2023 Black History study. My subject this year is Gabriel Prosser. Though enslaved, I assure you he was in no way devoted to neither the system nor the people who enslaved him.
Similarly a great deal of President Trump's allure is his refusal to go along to get along. There really is a swamp and the swamp people are terrified of President Trump.
What specifically did President Reagan do that would cause someone like him to be ostracized by today's conservatives?
I have not seen this picture before. I do not know anything about it. I do enjoy several of the Jon McNaughton paintings. This one is not for me.
Look, "liegeman for life" was your term. Don't deflect with semantics now.
I think there are huge numbers of Americans who correctly believe that most policymakers in Washington don't care about them, and I agree that Trump appeals to those people by promoting the misperception that he differs from that.
As far as I can see, however, the only people terrified of Trump are Republican politicians who know that he can make their lives difficult during primary season.
And he meant it. He signed a bill that included amnesty for unregistered immigrants, and later when he realized it hadn't included their minor children (the Dreamers of their day) he signed an executive order to include them and defer their deportation. He wanted to build bridges, not walls.
Separate names with a comma.