The Union Institute in the news

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by ashton, Feb 15, 2004.

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  1. ashton

    ashton New Member

    According to the Rutland (Vermont) Herald (2/15/2004, pg. D1) the Union Institute will cut jobs; seven jobs in Montpelier and two and one-half in Brattleboro. There will also be layoffs in California, Florida, and Ohio. Most of the cuts will be in the Cincinnati headquarters.

    University President Roger Sublett indicated the Institute has experienced enrollment declines.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Maybe they should reduce their outrageous fees!
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: The Union Institute in the news

    Union's tuition is in line with the rest of the market. That isn't the problem.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Re: Re: The Union Institute in the news

    Hey Rich,

    Okay, what is the problem?
     
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: The Union Institute in the news

    Ignoring the USDoE and the OBR.

    Poor marketing.

    Poor internal management.

    Lack of responsiveness to the changing educational environment.

    Too much expensive deadwood.

    Running a learner-centered program without enough sensitivity towards learners.


    It's complicated. And dire.
     
  6. eleanor rigby

    eleanor rigby New Member

    I just wonder how dire this situation is. I'm enrolled in a low-residency program at Vermont College right now. Is this financial trouble potentially serious enough to close the school within the next few years? If VC were to close before my graduation, I wonder how acceptable my credits would be to other institutions, and if I were to get my diploma and then the school closed, how viable would my diploma be? Thanks for any thoughts.

    Amy Greene
    www.thefirstman.com
     
  7. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Union Institute in the news


    And let's not forget that whole "Union Institute and University" naming debacle. What in the world could they have been thinking?

    Gee, let's appeal to a greater number of students by giving ourselves an elitist, hoity-toity, name. And how is that working out for them?

    They have good quality programs that still offer options not available elsewhere. There's your marketing. It seems like they purposefully continue to place themselves out of the mainstream. Yes, you will draw a certain type of student that way. However, if you want to survive, you have to reach a broader base.

    No, I don't think they should become the next University of Phoenix, but I think that there is much they can do to become a part of at least a corner of mainstream academia.


    Tom Nixon
     
  8. ashton

    ashton New Member

    Since VC is regionally accredited, undergraduate credits should transfer with only the usual hassles (most universities will see how well the subject matter of the courses line up with their graduation requirements, and also require a minimum number of credits be taken at the institution that is granting the degree). The diploma should be accepted even after the institution closes. The records would be transferred to another university, or a state education department, so transcripts would still be available.

    Most universities are more restrictive about accepting graduate credits, so if they were to close in the midst of your pursuit of a graduate degree, that could be a bigger problem.
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I suspect the Union will survive. I also suspect Vermont College is financially stable. I also suspect we will see major changes to the doctoral programs, however. I have reasons for these opinions.

    If I was enrolled in Union at any level, I wouldn't worry about being able to complete my program. The undergraduate and VC programs seem okay.

    Will the last one out of the Ph.D. program turn out the lights? :(
     
  10. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

  11. roysavia

    roysavia New Member

    If the Union Institute wanted to increase the number of students that enroll in the school's programs, perhaps they should start by reducing their tuition fees. I was quite interested in UIU a couple of years ago. Their $15,400.00 annual tuition fee killed that idea. A doctoral program through UIU would cost me between $45 - 60 thousand.
    If the school is annoucing layoffs, then perhaps they need to overhaul their administrative policies so that students from other countries won't feel intimidated in having to shell out an arm and a leg in order to finance their studies.
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I don't understand this. Union's tuition is right in line with other short-residency programs offered by free-standing U.S. schools. Fielding, Argosy, NCU, Touro, they're all about the same: expensive.

    Comparing these schools to overseas schools isn't fair. Those universities operate under different cost and funding structures. Schools here have to be self-sufficient.

    Union's cost isn't the problem; it's not what has driven down enrollments. That can be attributed to Union's inability to define itself in an ever-increasingly crowded market.

    When I first considered a short-residency doctorate, there were exactly 5, count 'em, 5 available in the U.S. (The only one available from an overseas school was UNISA.) The 5 were Union, Fielding, International Graduate School (since closed), Sarasota (now Argosy), and NOVA. Saybrook, CIIS, Walden, NCU, Touro International, and Capella were either not yet formed or not yet accredited. That made Union one of a very small set of options. No more. Learners would enter Union without a clue regarding self-directed doctoral learning, but knew that this was one of their very few available choices. Now they can choose from a host of schools that offer curricula that appear very much like those offered by traditional schools. They take the known over the unknown--largely because Union itself can't adequately explain the process. (This doesn't seem to be as critical in the bachelor's programs where the requirements are more defined.)

    Union's dilemma? It must either (1) get the message out better (When was the last time you saw an advertisement for UIU's Ph.D. program?), or (2) change the programs to make them more "normal" and attractive to traditional learners, or (3) kill the doctoral program (which is a money-loser these days). Which do you think will occur?
     
  13. roysavia

    roysavia New Member

    Rich,
    It's unfortunate that Union doesn't have a marketing plan like the University of Phoenix or Capella. That doesn't mean that UIU isn't advertising. There's an advertisement for UIU's MA and PhD programs on the student bulletin board at York University in Toronto. Union's name is getting around. It obviously made its way up to Canada.
    As for changing the programs to make them more normal in order to attract traditional learners, I don't think so. The reason why UIU caught my eye was because of their non-traditional approach to graduate education. The only thing that turned me off about Union was their tuition. I can't afford a second mortgage at this time.
    If UIU's doctoral programs are losing money, then perhaps they need to focus only on the Interdisciplinary PhD. program by dropping the psychology PhD and canceling a few of their Masters degree programs.
    If UIU does want to attract international students (like myself), they'll need to review and amend their long term goals and objectives and compete with the other DL graduate schools. Reducing their tuition fees would be one step in the right direction.
    regards,
     
  14. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    That's exactly what turned me off to Union. I read everything on their website and everything they sent me, and I was more confused than before I read anything. Their answer to everything seemed to be "enroll now, and we'll explain it later". :rolleyes:
     
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Right!
     
  16. KeithH

    KeithH New Member

    Union Institute

    I am a new member to this discussion board because I am struggling with a decision. I am scheduled to begin my Ph.D. at Union with the March colloquium. but I'm having second thoughts. Given the latest financial news, I'm trying to understand the situation better. Any feedback would be appreciated.
     
  17. vical

    vical New Member

    Glad to know I wasn't the only one to feel that way. Years ago when I considered Union I came away with the exact same feeling. I found UNISA easier to understand!!
     
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: Union Institute

    I think Steve and I are the only two Union grads here. (It's always been a small school.) We cannot recommend enrollment right now. I'm more optimistic than Steve (as he notes) regarding Union's future.

    Union's doctoral program is all-or-nothing. If it actually collapses, you might end up with nothing. (A more likely scenario, IMHO, is one where Union arranges with another accredited, nontraditional school to "teach out" the learners in the pipeline. But that can be upsetting, too.)

    Another thing to consider is Union's willingness to change things on learners while they're enrolled. At most schools, you continue with the same degree requirements that were in place when you enrolled. But Union has had to respond to criticisms by the Ohio Board of Regents, and has had to impose new requirements on existing learners. If the Union has to change or even drop the Ph.D. program, who's to say they won't impose those changes on new learners? You might start earning a Ph.D. and end up with some other doctoral designation, for example.

    That is all speculation, but so is enrolling in Union right now.

    This is the kind of thing that can crush a company on the financial edge. For example: Back in the early 1980's, Adam Osborne invented portable computing with the Osborne I. It was a 30-pound behemoth with 2 floppy drives and a 5-inch screen, running the C/PM operating system (with a whopping 64k RAM). But it was state-of-the-art back then, as powerful as most desktops (but with the little screen). When IBM came out with the PC and began setting the standard, other companies strived to catch up. Well, Osborne had just introduced the Osborne II (with a bigger screen and better floppy drives), but it still ran C/PM. Osborne, always a visionary, made a statement to the trade press that his company would soon come out with a PC-compatible model. Well, everyone who would have purchased the Osborne II decided to wait for the new machine, drying up revenues at a time when his company really needed them to cover developmental costs. The company died. Union, faced with declining enrollments in its doctoral programs, could face just such a dilemma. It needs new learners to boost its revenues while it cuts costs, but new learners will be wary (for good reason) about enrolling because of the doctoral program's shaky outlook. Speculation may kill it.

    With all of that said, I still don't recommend enrolling right now.
     
  19. KeithH

    KeithH New Member

    Thanks for the feedback. I chose Union in the first place because I wanted the flexibility that it offered. I wasn't put off at all by the unstructured nature of the program. In fact, I thrive in those environments where the rules are written as you go. I have lined up some great people to serve on my committee, and was looking forward to the challenge. But your comments about what happens when such an unstructured program folds is at the top of my thinking at the moment. My program would likely not transfer to another school. The uncertainty of the situation is so very unsettling. Thanks again for the advice.

    Keith
     
  20. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    I'm sorry to hear about UIU's difficulties. The detailed honesty is refreshing, however, compared to the persistent flummery offered by some other posters.
     

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