The Trouble wih Online Education - NYT Op Ed

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by agschmidt, Jul 20, 2012.

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  1. agschmidt

    agschmidt New Member

  2. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Articles like this one by Mark Edmundson just romanticize over some mythical scenario where every B&M college class is this magical smorgasbord of stimulation and intellectual enlightment that changes your life. But, the reality is that lots of students would agree that B&M classes are boring, tedious, and just as impersonal as the author is charging online classes to be (in terms of student-professor interaction).

    One element that would put online classes more on level interaction-wise (and perhaps even above B&M) is live interaction via chat and/or video, and both of these can easily be integrated into any class (which is why I'm puzzled that most schools aren't doing it), and utilized on a schedule.
     
  3. rmm0484

    rmm0484 Member

    Many students value the convenience and independence of distance learning. I have tried chat in a few of the classes I have taught at AMU. The students actually found a utility in chat during team projects, but otherwise, getting students together from Afghanistan, Alabama and Arizona is a bit tricky, and removes the element of asynchronicity, one of the great differentiators held by distance learning!
     
  4. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    Honestly, I've preferred distance learning to avoid social interaction altogether. I get all the socializing I need at work and with my family. Even online classes can be more of a pain than necessary, because you usually have to read and respond to others' posts, which mostly restate (correctly or not) the current readings which everyone just read.

    In my opinion...the problem with DL is that it needlessly tries to mimic a classroom. The old independent study courses where you read, wrote papers and took tests were cheaper and less cluttered with useless work.
     
  5. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Right, but I'm not saying that chat or video interaction should be a forced tool. It should just be used as an optional enhancement. I saw one school a few years back that had Professor's choose times when they wanted a live session, and the Professor would be in the live applet with video and text chat; students could come in one at a time and ask questions with live 2-way video. It seemed like it worked pretty well.
     
  6. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    I dont know about you guys but i had to teach myself the material at my school because the classes were short and the teqchers were poor communicators.
     
  7. jumbodog

    jumbodog New Member

    In my opinion the quality of the education has far less to do with the medium of the class and far more to do with the person (i.e., the professor) who is teaching a class. Where I think on-line education suffers is that (1) many high quality professors want nothing to do with on-line teaching and the reason for that is (2) institutions themselves don't take on-line learning seriously. There is very little oversight, many of the students are from out of state, etc etc.

    The one real key thing I think B&M has over on-line education is that it's much easier for the student to get in the face of the professor if something negative happens. It's much easier to work the system when you are knocking on the door rather than just some voice on the phone. The dorm rumor mill is much more effective than anything on-line.
     
  8. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    I agree. That is why online learning can never replace face-to-face learning. At the same time not everyone needs face-to-face. For online courses it's the quality of the syllabi, textbooks, assignments and grading that are important.
     
  9. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    Many of the students at Harvard are from out of state too. So that doesn't seem to lower perceptions of quality at that school.
     
  10. gbrogan

    gbrogan Member

    Not to mention the quality of the student. Let's not leave that out. Learning via distance requires a lot of self-discipline that some students may not have.

    I get so tired of reading article after article about how there is no substitute for the networking contacts, interaction, blah, blah, blah that you get in a real classroom. You know what? I have 25+ years experience. I don't need contacts nor do I need intellectual stimulation from classmates. I have colleagues for that. Young people with no exposure to the work world need those things but what about the hundreds of thousands of working adults with families for whom distance education is the perfect venue? No one mentions that.
     
  11. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    I agree gbrogan. Frederick Taylor studied through distance learning and is responsible for creating the scholarly study of management. He also didn't buy the "cohort learning experience" bs :)
     
  12. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    The retort above would be clever if it showed any indication of intelligence on your part regarding the context the statement you replied to was given in.
     
  13. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    "Romanticizing" is a good way to put it. It is too bad that there does not seem to be a method for commenting on the article, as I found it, at best, amusingly wrong and, at worst, inept. However, it does illustrate why the "out of touch with reality" professor is such a strong stereotype, when it is promoted by articles like this. A truly pathetic article.

    Many schools are, in fact, doing synchronous chat and/or video sessions. The limitation with synchronous is that it negates a primary reason why many people choose to learn online: the ability to learn at times convenient to the learner. The learner must now log in at a specific hour, which may conflict with work or other obligations. Also many institutions have online students in different time zones (perhaps across the globe), where a synchronous session may require a student to log in at 3:00 am.
     
  14. rmm0484

    rmm0484 Member

    I agree with what you say except in the case of Distance Education Doctoral Learning. Because much of the expectations are tacit, it helps to be able to have some form of interaction beyond that of the coursework (since you do not interact much with the profs). The nculearners Yahoo Groups site has proven to be invaluable to those going through the doctoral phase, since they can get help and encouragement from fellow NCU learners and graduates. It has been shown that DE has a higher attrition rate, as does doctoral education, (both due to feelings of isolation), and social groups may help with providing the needed interaction (for some students).
     

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