Taras Shevchenko National Open University, Kyiv, Ukraine

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by engadnan, Aug 29, 2017.

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  1. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    I live to amuse.
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    True, I guess - no one named a school after the fictional Cossack. But I believe there have been schools named after Bohdan Khmelnitsky, a real Cossack. I knew a Ukrainian-born man years back, who said his elementary school was named after him. I note that Taras Shevchenko was one of Khmelnitsky's harshest critics. I am also saddened by Khmelnitsky's role in pogroms, seeking to eradicate Jews entirely from Ukraine. For that reason alone, I'd never name anything after him.

    A quote from the article cited below: "Between 1648 and 1656, tens of thousands of Jews—given the lack of reliable data, it is impossible to establish more accurate figures—were killed by the rebels, and to this day the Khmelnytsky uprising is considered by Jews to be one of the most traumatic events in their history."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohdan_Khmelnytsky

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2017
  3. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    There is a hotel named Taras Bulba. It's located about 70 KM from my town Chernovitsi. It's on a way to Kamensk Podolsk. Bucovina is where I'm originally from.
    Once a long time ago the city was under Austrian Monarchy and later Polish and Romanian so a lot of influences. Chernivtsi National University is a great place to visit as the city it's very beautiful.
    Chernivtsi National University was founded on October 4, 1875, by decree Franz Josef, Emperor of Austro-Hungary.
    Now if you happened to be in New York then you are welcome to dine in a restaurant named Taras Bulba - a fun cultural event with music that gets everyone dancing.
     
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yeah, that's accurate. You need to consider the times though: much later and fictional Bulba commits war crimes and remains a protagonist of his novel. Khmelnitsky uprisal created a de facto independent Ukrainian state (ZaporozIan Host). For this reason, Bohan is a huge national hero with tons of things named after him, including a state decoration (Order of Khmelnitsky) and a city of Khmelnitsky, administrative center of an eponymous region. He's also on a 100 hryvnia bill. I didn't Google yet, but bet there's at least one university named after him as well.
     
  5. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Googled. There's at least one: Bohdan Khmelnitsky National University in Chernivtsi. In addition to several schools in the city of Khmelnitsky with place reference in the name. There are probably more.
     
  6. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Stanislav did you mean Cherkasy?

    Cherkasy National University named after Bogdan Khmelnitsky.

    In Chernivtsi - my town where I grew up.
    Yuriy Fedkovych Chernivtsi National University
    I remember street Bogdan Khmelnitsky as well.
     
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I know why he's a hero -- and I know why he's a villain, too. Killing Jews was just as wrong in 1648 as it was in 1290 in England, where I'm from. And 1930s to 1945 in Europe. Persecution, genocide, terror and anti-Semitism are never acceptable to me. I don't consider the time or make allowances, as there is no acceptable time for such atrocities.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2017
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    The website was registered in April 2017, so I guess it's new. It's a work in progress, perhaps. The KNUOU opening page still awaits Dr. Al Souleiman's signature. A stock specimen, which reads "signature" still appears below his name. They need a proofreader - I'm not applying.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2017
  9. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I like "hero and villain" trope, although frankly still don't see the problem of naming things after Khmelnitsky. King Leopold of Belgium turned Kongo into a for-profit death camp for himself, and is still remembered for his infrastructure projects at home (well, OK, this is screwed up). It's important to own up to atrocities your side committed; and yes, Ukrainians are prone to denying and whitewashing our heroes' shadier side. To be clear, I didn't hear before that Bogdan "wanted to rid Ukraine of the Jews"; I'd like to see a authoritative link to that. However, the fact that his uprising killed a lot of them (and they, not being noble or soldiers, were overwhelmingly defenseless civilians) is widely know; certainly prof. Subtelny is an authority on that. Still, Khmelnitsky is a symbol of struggle for freedom, not antisemitism.

    BTW, from Shevchenko's poetry, it does not seem his distaste for war victims. Shevchenko famously hated the Pereyaslav Accords that brought Ukraine under Russian "protection"; ultimately, this led to the destruction of freedoms, oppression, and ultimately - and that was personal for Shevchenko - introduction of serfdom.

    But oh, Bohdan,
    You unwise son of mine!(2)
    Look at your ancient mother now,
    Ukraine, of stock divine,
    Who as she cradled you, would sing
    And grieve she was not free;
    Who, as she sang, in sorrow wept
    And looked for liberty!...
    0 dear Bohdan, if I had known
    That you would bring us doom,
    1 would have choked you in your crib,
    Benumbed you in my womb!
    For now my steppes are meted out
    To Germans and to Jews;(3)
    My sons now toil in alien lands(4)
    Where foreign lords abuse;
    The Dnieper they are drying up;
    The loss will break my heart;
    And my dear mounds the Muscovite
    Is shattering apart.
    ("Excavated Mound", 1843)

    There's a famous Shevchenko poem "Haydamaky", about later peasant uprising that was also an even bigger Jewish slaughter. In it, the poem briefly and sympathetically depicts a Jewish family, but lionizes the uprising and its leader, Gonta. Slaughter is depicted and depicted as tragedy, but most sympathy is on the side of protagonists. It does concentrate on killing Poles ("catholics") rather than Jews, though; Gonta is shown murdering his own sons (whose mother raised them in Catholic faith rather than Orthodox) to fulfill his oath. Gore stuff.
     
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    My bad. Cherkasy, of course. I'm not sure how I typed "Chernivtsi".

    There are many Bohdan Khmelnitsky streets across the country. Also, I seemed to recall that there's a service academy named after Khmelnitsky; and, sure enough, there is - National Border Guards Service Academy.
     
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Thank you. I wonder if it'll survive for long.
     
  12. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    Ukraine, it seems like a cool place. My former boss love it there.
    I wish KNU had made a wiser choice in its partnership. This find had the potential of being the best international find in distance learning. Remove KNOU and this is the best value out there. KNU history draws you in.
     
  13. Derina

    Derina Member

    So what is really wrong with this university? it seems to me that the university offers online degree programs and final degree is issued by the:

    "Will my final Degree/Diploma contain KNU logo and information?
    Yes. KNU OU will offer you the study program however the final award (Degree or Diploma) will contain ONLY Taras Shevchenko National University (KNU) logo and information"

    https://www.knuou.com/admission/faq

    Totally legit to me. I fail to understand the fear/hesitancy shown towards the University.
    Perhaps i am missing something.
     
  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I think if you read the posts of Johann in this discussion you will understand why.
    Also from what I understand the question is as it was stated earlier in the discussion by Stanislav.
    The important part of a diploma is not a logo - it's a serial number registered with Ministry of Education.
    Also, the disclaimer OU makes on the utility of the degree, the licensing etc, why is that?

    Lets put it this way if the awarded degree is the same as KNU national standard registered with Ukranian Ministry of Education then it is a good offering.
    The instruction is in English so it's highly competitive.
    But if the degree issued with KNU logo but not a standard diploma registered with the Ukranian MOE
    Then it can be problematic.
    I think KNU-OU may want to clarify this to the potential students, so there is more certainty.
    KNU-OU appears to be new subsidiary so time will show.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2017
  15. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    Ukrainian auto-complete?

    Putin?
     
  16. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    Missing is the imprimatur of the degrees awarded.
     
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    There isn't any, for people who want to. I don't particularly mind if people in Ukraine name things after him. It's their business. Just that I (personally) wouldn't. And yes - I do understand why they want to commemorate him.

    A story - that means absolutely nothing.

    About 28 years ago, I took a first-year Ukrainian course at night - at a local high school. In the Christmas play, I was the "stock" Jew, who is in every such performance. I asked for the part - I'm not quite sure why. As far as I know, I don't have Jewish ancestry, but who knows? DNA will tell, when I get around to it. I listened to some recordings, to get the requisite accent attributed by some to Ukrainian-speaking Jews.

    Mostly by luck, my broken Ukrainian broke in the right places, I'm told. We performed for the local priest and my teacher told me he asked "where did you get this Englishman who speaks Ukrainian like that? Is he Jewish?"

    You can always fool some of the people at least part of the time, I guess. Maybe some of the folks at KNU-OU might agree with that - I dunno.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2017
  18. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    Anyone had any direct contact with KNU? I tried but to asked about the serial number on the degree. However, the response was not specific to the serial number, but about the general acceptance and quality of KNU which I already had no problem with. Can someone else also try to flush out this serial # issue?
     
  19. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

  20. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The degree certificate from KNU-OU is different, It issued not from the Ukraine. The law requires physical location in Ukraine for it to be able to award same as KNU degree.
    The only way to earn KNU degree is to attend KNU on campus in Kyiv, Ukraine.

    The value of the earned degree and diploma issued by the Open Faculty is in my view mixed as it has the logo of an accredited university. In some countries, it maybe can pass?
    But if needed Apostille - ENIC under Ukrainian Ministry of Education and Science will not endorse it.
    At this time, in my opinion for the US, it should be considered as possibly unaccredited when compared to RA.
    I can be wrong, as this is new faculty - one thing is certain the degree is not standard KNU degree.
     

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