State Approval - Which States are bogus?

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Kirkland, Jul 6, 2005.

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  1. Kirkland

    Kirkland Member

    Are there States that require State Approval for postsecondary schools to operate that do not follow statutory quality guidelines when approving schools? In other words, which States provide bogus approvals?

    I'm not speaking of school licensing which all States require (unfortunately at varying levels of rigor). I'm speaking of those specific States that provide a certification that approved institutions have been found to meet quality guidelines on the basis of inspection and statutory evaluation (whether they are accredited or not). For example, some approval States are: California, Oregon, Connecticut, New York, and Virginia. In contrast, Wyoming is only a licensing State.
     
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    What is meant by "statutory quality guidelines"? Are you asking which states don't follow their own procedures? Someone else's? Or those states whose standards are not of sufficient quality? (However that might be defined.) What's the standard?

    Also, where does "licensing" end and "approval" begin? Take Wyoming. Their own language says that their licensure should not be construed as approval by the state. Still, they approve schools for licensure, don't they? They make a decision, and that's a form of approval.

    States I think do a lousy job:

    Alabama
    Wyoming
    California
    Louisiana
    Mississippi

    States with obviously license-only approaches:

    Wyoming
    Hawaii
    Alabama

    States that approve, yet let miscreants operate anyway:

    California
    New Mexico
     
  3. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

  4. Kirkland

    Kirkland Member

    Originally posted by Rich Douglas
    What is meant by "statutory quality guidelines"? an example would be a State Education Code or similar published guideline
    Are you asking which states don't follow their own procedures?
    I'm curious if there are States that grant approval but don't have written guidelines or procedures.
    Or those states whose standards are not of sufficient quality? ...
    No, just looking at it from a procedural point of view.
    Also, where does "licensing" end and "approval" begin? Take Wyoming. Their own language says that their licensure should not be construed as approval by the state. Still, they approve schools for licensure, don't they? They make a decision, and that's a form of approval.
    Licensing is a permit to do business or to operate. Some States require substantive prerequisites to get that license, some don't. The key difference in approval is that the State CERTIFIES school quality through some sort of due process. Wyoming is very clear that they are NOT providing approval.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 6, 2005
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I don't think any are bogus but they are inept.They don't know what they are up against. It's the unaccredited DL schools that are bogus and they have been fooling even the experts for years. It's their whole purpose in life.

    While a fun and funny topic why all the chatter about unaccredited DL schools anyway? They are at best extremely limited in utility and at worst a total fraud.
    And they lean heavily toward the latter.

    I think it is time to lay to rest this academic paranormal activity that is best left to Art Bell. This nonsense is totally useless to the serious,career minded student.

    Thanks,
    Dan
     
  6. Kirkland

    Kirkland Member

    Dan, everybody knows most serious career minded students go to accredited universities, no argument there. However, it is estimated in California for instance that over one hundred thousand students are in degree pursuits through CA approved schools. I assume cost and less competitive enrollments are a large factor. And this can be used in some circumstances to leverage further education. It would be a fallacy to assume that students in approved schools around the country aren't serious and career minded, or that it is nonsense or useless. I'm curious which States do not back up their approval with solid process.
     
  7. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    This chanel is actually the place were we discuss unaccredited v accredited enf issues related to this situation.
    New unaccredited schools and bogus unaccredited schools, ODA approved unaccredited schools etc.
    The other chanel on Degreeinfo is more geared toward DL accredited schools.
    And in my opinion it is state by state - or case by case.

    And we do have one state that is recognized as Nationally Accredited and thats is the state of New York.

    I think that most of the states leave the accreditaton to the regionals.

    Should all the states try to get recognized on a level of NA.

    I think this would be good objective.

    Learner
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi Kirkland,

    Sure there are good approved sit down schools but I' m referring to DL approved schools only. To me you cannot compare the two. But if you can then how is it that DL approved PWU is so mercilessly ripped and not a sit down approved school? What then is the benchmark if not approval for DL schools? Somebody's opinion?

    Thanks,
    Dan
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Lerner,

    My point is that how do you or anybody for that matter know that anything that a never accredited DL school does or says is even legitimate or true or even worth discussing? A website visit? What somebody said here or through some catalogue you received or a phone call?
    What worthwhile info did you get regarding their programs? What in the whole history of never accredited DL schools leads you to believe that anything worthwhile was, is or ever will be going on here.
     
  10. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    The vast majority of CA approved schools are NOT general education schools that offer Bachelor's degrees. They are vocational and speciality schools that generally are not even offering distance learning opportunities. True that they are likely 100,000 serious students (for the most part) but they are not pursuing distance learning Bachelor's or Master's degrees.
     
  11. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Thats exactly the reason why ODA for example evaluates the schools.
    People on this site try to protect from such schools as well.

    If the school is exposed for what it is than it's not a bad idea to talk about it.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Lerner,

    While I think the ODA has right idea how many of these are actually "schools"? Many are simply scams.Using a "Diploma" from many should be a crime.

    I think the mere title of this forum clouds the accredidation issue as it gives a glimmer of legitimacy to the never accredited as an option which filters down to the bogus level. I don't believe there really are any options other than accredited in DL.

    Thanks,
    Dan
     
  13. Kirkland

    Kirkland Member

    The last time I looked, degree granting schools amounted to about 10% of the total schools approved, most being vocational. However, if you check with CPEC (CA Postsecondary Ed Commission) I believe you'll find that my numbers are correct. I remember reading there are approx. 100,000 students pursuing academic degrees in approved schools (400,000 students in approved programs overall). CPEC website wasn't coming up for me so it'll have to wait.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2005
  14. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Which is state is easier to start a bogus school- the states that do a lousy job or the license only states?
     
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Easiest state is not a fixed evaluation. Different diploma mills can have different "business models". What is illegal differs from state to state and what is actually enforced differs from one jurisdiction to the next. For example, the mill may depend heavily on deceitful accreditation claims like St. Regis University and the NBOE crowd. Another example, in the United Kingdom it is illegal for a diploma mill to use the word University in its name but that has apparently never been enforced but the authorities in the UK seem to be much more vigilant in enforcing the part of the law that says that the diploma mills cannot claim to offer UK degrees and they can't sale their degrees to anyone with a UK address.
     
  16. Kirkland

    Kirkland Member

    This is a correction to my 100,000 current enrollment figure presented earlier. CA BPPVE indicates 3,000 total schools including vocational, with 400,000 total attending. CPEC indicates 253 degree granting schools. CPEC's search tool for educational statistics provided the following for CA State-Approved enrollments and degrees granted for the following years (most recent data):

    2003 enrolled 41,805 degrees granted 16,251
    2002 enrolled 39,401 degrees granted 13,577
    2001 enrolled 37,388 degrees granted 12,550
    2000 enrolled 34,984 degrees granted 17,620
    1999 enrolled 31,871 degrees granted 14,776

    http://www.cpec.ca.gov/CollegeGuide/CollegeGuide.asp
     

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