Russia/North Korea

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Kizmet, Oct 2, 2017.

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  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

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  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

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  3. decimon

    decimon Active Member

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  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Active Member

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    North Korea: Vladimir Putin Behind Missile Threat? | National Review

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/how-russia-quietly-undercuts-sanctions-intended-to-stop-north-koreas-nuclear-program/2017/09/11/f963867e-93e4-11e7-8754-d478688d23b4_story.html?utm_term=.812d0582083d

    Russia sees itself in a state of "hybrid warfare", with the West it says. The principal tool of the trade here is to use any instrument to indirectly cause chaos on the global scale (again, see under "doctrine, Gerassimoff"). It short, think of Putin as a supervillain, and you'd not be far off. Do you think they'd limit their shenanigans to Facebook? Do you think it'd make sense for them to, maybe, support North Korea in their pursuits of blackmail weapons, just like they support Assad (and I'd guess ISIS as well)? Anyone?

    Feeling safer with your Putin-preferred President yet?
     
  5. decimon

    decimon Active Member

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    You're talking to a Kold War Kid here. And I did have some skin in that game.

    Post-Soviet duplicity won't exceed its precedent and that was well known.

    If that is true then Putin is the greatest fool since Ivan The Pinhead.
     
  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Active Member

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    Not for the lack of trying, D. We're talking an international criminal syndicate with wads of dark cash an access to resources of a nuclear state. Old KGB was bad, and source of much evil (including, reportedly, Arab terrorism); Putin tries to rebuild that. He will fail, but it doesn't mean he won't cause damage along the way.

    I'm afraid there's no "if" at this point. On the one hand, you're right: Russkies clearly hoped for direct concessions in Ukraine, Syria, and diplomatic relations with US; that failed and was not very likely to begin with. Also, I think Putin's worldview is not the widest or most sane. On the other hand, Russia's consistent goal is to weaken the Western coalition and seed doubt in democratic institutions around the world (this last goal is their survival imperative). For this purpose, Trump is approximately as good as realistically possible.
     
  7. decimon

    decimon Active Member

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    I think some paranoia there. Of course, what's paranoia to me could for him be survival.
     
  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Active Member

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    Of course. One thing to remember: Putin may be stuck in the 80ies in his thinking and may hold a very skewed view of the world. Still, he is a trained KGB agent with interesting skills, with aides possessing more skills, plus gobs of cash and resources of Russia's oversized "security" apparatus. One underestimates him to one's peril.

    Historical note: the single person most responsible for Putin's rise is Boris Abramovich Berezovsky. Mr. Berezovsky was a man with close ties to President Yeltsin, and was regarded as one of the co-owners of Russia under an informal "7 bankers" system. He controlled 1st channel of Russian TV, by far the most viewed. He held an obligatory, for elite player, public offices: Member of Duma, Secretary of State for the Union of Russia and Bielarus. In short, a person of enormous wealth and influence. Moreover, in his former life, he was a mathematician holding Cand. Sc., D.Sc., and Professor titles, as well as a Corresponding Member of the Academy of Science of the Soviet Union. A member of academic elite. He introduced Putin, a middling KGB officer, to Yeltsin as a suitable heir: predictable, loyal, easy to manipulate.

    Berezovsky ended his life in a very suspicious "suicide", in London, exiled and a fraction of his former wealth. He underestimated a KGB officer, and by doing so, underestimated the whole kontora.
     
  9. decimon

    decimon Active Member

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  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Active Member

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    What was the first clue - 10,000 dead in an ongoing war with Russia?

    OF COURSE Ukraine is the key in countering Putin. What Ukraine needs right now is a gentle guidance not to backslide in reforms - like what Biden was providing while in office. I'm not holding my breath waiting for Pence or Tillerson to do that (although maybe Volker is doing something behind the scenes). This, and military equipment and arms; I'm a bit more optimistic on that topic.
     

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