Rex Tillerson gets the boot

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Abner, Mar 13, 2018.

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  1. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

  2. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    No chaos, but a lot of great energy! Bwa-hahahaha!
     
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    And just one day after Tillerson said that Russia was responsible for the assassination of one of its ex-spies on UK soil. Total coincidence, though, obviously....
     
  4. heirophant

    heirophant Active Member

    Tangential.

    Tillerson just spoke at the State Department (without taking questions), basically running down what he believes were the successes of his tenure.

    Noko obviously. I think that he and Trump are very much on the same page about the 'no more strategic patience' doctrine that he announced that he credits with pushing Kim Jung Un to the negotiating table. It's hard to find daylight between them there.

    But there were subtle hints of where disagreements might lie.

    Tillerson sounded very conciliatory towards China. I suspect that Trump sees China as a growing economic and strategic adversary and favors a harder line. Tillerson is a business guy after all and for years American multinational business (Tillerson's own background) has perceived the huge Chinese market as the promised-land for their future growth. (No matter how much they have to compromise their own "liberal" principles to succeed there.) So that might have been an area of disagreement. I think that Trump perceives China as practicing old-style 17th century mercantilist trade policies against us, in hopes of fueling their own rise with US money while de-industrializing their chief rival in the process. Trump thinks that's a long-term prescription for the collapse of America and of everything it stands for.

    Tillerson sounded more hard-line about Russia. I don't think that Trump favors all this neo-Cold-War stuff that the Democrats suddenly started pushing after losing the 2016 election. (After Hillary had tried to improve US-Russia relations herself with her 'reset button'.) So Trump may still be more inclined to be more cooperative towards Russia where our interests align, than towards always turning a benevolent blind-eye to China's equally provocative excesses. (Which one is a communist dictatorship?) I think that Trump thinks that as the years pass and China's shadow over the planet grows, the interests of the US and Russia will converge more and more.

    And Tillerson praised the State Department for their dedication and patriotism. That might have just been rhetoric, the conventional thing to say, or it may have been a response to Trump wanting him to take a harder line with politicized Hillary-loyalist holdovers who have been trying to subvert the Trump administration.

    I expect that Trump knew that Tillerson was his own man when he appointed him. Trump seems to have wanted strong personalities with ideas of their own, not yes-men, toadies and sycophants. By all accounts Tillerson is a very outspoken guy, used to being the boss and calling the shots, who says what's on his mind and perhaps doesn't always say it in the most diplomatic way. And Trump does the same. Trump's a guy who fights back when he perceives he's being attacked and Tillerson might not have much experience with people who talk-back to him. So there may have been some kind of verbal confrontation that led to this. In other words it might have been more of a personality conflict than a disagreement on diplomatic strategy. (I'm curious whether Tillerson was fired or whether he resigned.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  5. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Or it could be that Trumpeta is angry over being called a moron by Tillerson! He he
     
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Although, I have to admit that it took Trump a lot longer to get rid of Tillerson after that came to light than I would have expected. I'm astonished Tillerson survived nearly fourteen months in all.
     
    Abner likes this.
  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet 版主 Moderator

  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    5 down (in two weeks) , 9 more to go? https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/13/politics/tillerson-fired-trump-cabinet/index.html

    I find it noteworthy that Undersecretary for Public Diplomacy, Steve Goldstein:

    (1) Returned from a week-long tour of African Nations
    (2) Commented on Tillerson's firing (i.e. answered a question or two, to the best of his ability)
    (3) Was promptly fired himself.

    What's going on here?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Trump is right. It's not chaos - it's pandemonium! (Hey, isn't that what Russian operatives are said to poison people with? Oh, sorry -- that's polonium. Radioactive element named for Poland - yeah, sure! Blame Poland!)
     
  10. Kizmet

    Kizmet 版主 Moderator

  11. Kizmet

    Kizmet 版主 Moderator

  12. Kizmet

    Kizmet 版主 Moderator

  13. Kizmet

    Kizmet 版主 Moderator

  14. heirophant

    heirophant Active Member

  15. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    No doubt that when the real Cold War started, there was no shortage of people saying "can you believe this warmongering stuff! After Roosevelt tried to improve US-Russia relations himself by giving away billions of dollars worth of stuff in the Lend-Lease!". Fair amount of these people were actual Soviet agents, and much of the rest, useful idiots. I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to achieve with this logic-free piece of Sputnik+ content.

    I don't believe there were direct firefights between U.S. military and the Russians (like in Syria last month) since Korea. Also, when poisoning people on NATO soil, old KGB had the decency to use concealed syringes, not fine powders contaminating dozens of locations. You guys are already in the new Cold War. I can't believe you presume Pompeo will be more of a Russia dove than Orden Druzhby recipient Tillerson.
     
  16. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Georgi Markov: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov

    And it was better to off Trotsky in Mexico than at home.
     
  17. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

  18. Kizmet

    Kizmet 版主 Moderator

  19. Kizmet

    Kizmet 版主 Moderator

  20. Kizmet

    Kizmet 版主 Moderator

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