Regionals vs. DETC - A Real Turf War

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by russ, Feb 19, 2005.

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  1. pugbelly

    pugbelly New Member

    <<I disagree simply because, from what I understand, there will be reporting requirements. And if RA schools show suspicious rejection patterns, they will eventually be investigated.>>

    Agreed.
     
  2. Casey

    Casey New Member

    Right. This is what upsets me so much. I can definitely understand schools having an interest in maintaining academic integrity, but blindly rejecting credits doesn't further this cause. Is it really too much to ask that RA schools fairly evaluate prospective transfer credits?
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    No it's not. Should be SOP for all schools!
     
  4. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    All of this conjecture about any institution being forced to accept transfer courses and degrees made me laugh. This simply isn’t going to happen, and it has nothing to do with accreditors, turf wars, or anything of the sort.

    Many years ago I transferred to a WASC accredited school. The school in question (which shall remain nameless) refused to accept about 7 or 8 courses I had taken at other institutions (all regionally accredited). Most irritating of all was their refusal to transfer in and grant me credit for English I. The reason this vexed me most of all is that they did transfer in and grant me credit for English II (for which, of course, English I was a prerequisite).

    So what, you may ask? Well…

    The English I course had been taken at another WASC accredited school, while English II had been taken at a SACS accredited school!

    As such, I have never understood the bellyaching of the graduates and students of non-regionally accredited schools; it’s not as if students and graduates of regionally accredited schools don’t have to do their fair share of petitioning, requesting reviews, and generally working the system when dealing with credit transfer and acceptance.

    If you haven’t learned the lesson that life isn’t always fair (and the government can’t make it so), then maybe you aren’t really ready for college-level studies. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I agree with Gus. No legistlation is going to force this issue--it might even cause some RA schools to use their options to a greater extent to refuse such transfers.

    The scene for transferring credits from DETC-accredited schools to RA schools seems to be improving. And that's without government intervention. I would expect it to improve further over time. But my eyes blur over when all of this speculation gets started.

    Expect glacial change. THAT's "SOP."
     
  6. Deb

    Deb New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Republicans are in charge now....

    And this is a very broad generalization. Most liberal academics in colleges have no idea about credit transfers or sometimes even college policy. At the private college I work at we have a large liberal teaching body but the Board is almost all Republicans - and they make those decisions, not the professors.

    Sweeping generalizations don't help anyone's arguement.

    Deb
     
  7. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    I think a political debate has crept out of the kraal on the politics forum.
     
  8. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Busho4, You wear a very strange pair of shades. I thank goodness that not everything is national politics as you seem to argue.
     
  9. Deb

    Deb New Member

    Apologies. I promised not to make any more political statements - useless someone else does first.
     
  10. Casey

    Casey New Member

    Practice what you preach...

    Speaking of sweeping generalizations ^^^^^^
     
  11. russ

    russ New Member

    Another insulting post, Janko. I am very happy I did not respond to your "nice" request for information since you would have used it to insult me in a different fashion. I think I have established an excellent thread with some very intelligent posts (not yours) and discussion about the different accrediting bodies. Do you wish to complain about that as well?
     
  12. russ

    russ New Member

    Another insulting post, Janko. I am very happy I did not respond to your "nice" request for information since you would have used it to insult me in a different fashion. I think I have established an excellent thread with some very intelligent posts (not yours) and discussion about the different accrediting bodies. Do you wish to complain about that as well?
     
  13. Ray Lund

    Ray Lund New Member

    The real battles....

    After examining the catalogs and entrance requirements of many universities, (and having matriculated at 6 RA schools myself) I have come to the following conclusions:

    (1) Universities and colleges that are trying to develop more competitive programs (MBA's come to mind) and attract more capable students are having to scruitinize students incoming capabilities much more severely. This has come to testing students actual knowledge bases and skill sets to ensure that prerequisite knowledge is at an acceptable level to succeed. The additional scruitiny is seen in many institutions, even DL schools like Troy State, where an RA degree gets you nowhere - you still have to demonstrate the knowledge and capabilities, complete with specific course work or you don't get in. Obviously if a candidate with only a degree from a DETC shcool applies, they are going to wonder jsut what capabilities this student brings with him. Probably more so since the degree isn't from an RA school. No one wants to let a student into a program only to find out he/she can't cut the material. Experience may have led them to believe that DETC education is of lesser quality, but it could be from other sources of pressure as you suggest. Bottom line is, schools like Troy and others seem to be more concerned with true capability rather than labels. Other schools such as Simon Fraser (where I am headed) also check rather thoroughly to see what you actually have, and don't just rely on the RA stamp of approval as well.

    (2) Many DETC (or NA) schools have offerings that are not standard academic programs. Some are terminal degrees at the AA or BA level due to the specific training and education offered. This puts the school in sort of a different arena, and there is nothing wrong with that. The non-RA status imputes no conitation as to quality/non-quality of education, jsut a variance in requriements and final product provided. Accordingly, it would be off base for RA schools to blindly accept DETC education with substantia variances as equivilant to standard academic programs and grant direct transfer.

    The RA idea was a good one, it just happens that there are many schools with different levels of acceptable quality, and many variances in program offerings with the same name. As a general rule, DETC institutions allow a wider band of student capabilities to enter and matriculate in thier programs and accordingly graduate students with the same variances. Many are not suitable candidates for the next level of study at msot RA schools, and there is nothing wrong with this.

    I'm sure some DETC schools would like their students to be able to transfer units to RA schools, and some will. In the long run, it will be demonstrated capabilities and knowledge bases from the graduates of DETC schools that determine acceptability to RA institutions. Until then, the general rule will be that you have to prove what you got from school before acceptance. Nothing wrong with that either.

    Turf war? I don't really think so. Everybody is making money and going for more, What more?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2005
  14. russ

    russ New Member

    Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Ray Lund. You made some good points. What I thought was very telling was your ending statement which is quoted above. My life experience has taught me that anything to do with money is going to be competitive.

    In the original case, the individual was highly qualified by personal experience in the exact field of the masters program with professional credentials on top of the bachelor degree. The only questionable variable in regards to the case was that the bachelors degree came from a DETC school. The applicant was blindly rejected based on the degree and no other issue.

    RAs know that if they dilute the quality of NA accreditors they will compel more students to feel they must have a RA degree. By rejecting a NA bachelor degree for any entry into their masters program, they cause that dilution. I believe this is driven by competition between the regionals and the NAs. DETC's site makes it clear they believe the same thing.
     
  15. Deb

    Deb New Member

    Re: Practice what you preach...

    But I can back it up. Would you like to take this to another thread and have me send examples?
     
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I see that "russ," who has no time for this, is up to 8.09 posts per day. That's amazing.:rolleyes:
     
  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    What I've argued is that while DETC is competing with and even fighting to stay in the general education accrediting business, I really doubt that RA in general (meaning a majority of RA schools) gives much thought to DETC. It's just not a big enough competitor. There is far more competition between RA schools than between RA and DETC schools, at least from the RA school perspective.
     
  18. Ray Lund

    Ray Lund New Member

    Turf wars -RA's vs the world (DL's, NA's)

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2005
  19. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Interesting post, Ray. Thank you.
     
  20. pugbelly

    pugbelly New Member

    <<For academic purposes, I SAY TEST 'EM!.>>

    I agree completely. If there was a testing requirement in place that would require both RA and NA applicants to pass as a condition of admission, this would be fair.

    Pug
     

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