RA + specialized/professional accrediation in professional fields is a must!

It is also questionable whether unaccredited schools such as, at random example, Frederick Taylor University or its Hawaii-swatted Doppelgaenger FTIU can make any claim to PA. Perhaps its um owner Mansour Saki can clear up this additional aspect of PA for all of us.

It is also questionable whether non-US universities necessarily possess US-based PA, and whether they should.

 

International PA

In some cases, US-based PA bodies explicitly accept foreign PA bodies as equivalent, so there is no need for foreign schools to seek US-based PA. In engineering, for example, the PA bodies of the US, Canada, UK, Ireland, South Africa, Australia, NZ, Hong Kong, and Japan have a mutual agreement to honor each other's accreditations.

So engineering essentially has international PA, as well as national PA. There must be other fields that do this as well.

 

Thanks, CalDog. Do you know of any similar reciprocity agreements between the US and the successor states of the USSR?

 

UJ in the past it was the ministry in charge ( health, apace agency, forestry) that was in charge of professional qualification oversight.

Today in Russia for the field of Engineering its the
Russian Association for Engineering Education - the equivalent to ABET in USA.

http://aeer.cctpu.edu.ru/eindex.phtml

RAEE recognized by UK Engineering Council and the Credential evaluation Agency in USA that performs ABET equivalency evaluations of Engineering Degrees from overseas.

http://www.ecei.org/

UJ my degree was evaluated by this agency as well.

My university was not only allowed to award RA/NA equivalent degrees but also Professional Qualifications and professional title of Engineer Sysms Technologyst.

wile former soviet universities and the respected countries not a part of washington accord, they are recognized to be on the same level, in USA its by the above evaluation agency and in UK by EC.

The recognition is not automatic but if the respoceble agency finds it to be equivalent then it is automatic in USA by most states.

Learner

 

To me accreditation is more for recognition than garantee of quality. if a course is not PA accredited the best option then is to evaluate.

A school could offer an engineering course matching the ABET recommendations but not ABET accredited for some reason. That does not mean the quality is less.

Like this school is around for awhile but obviously is not ABET.. looking at the courses, it seem fairly good to me

http://www.cooks.edu/

 

No. However, the Washington Accord has been growing (Japan recently got on board), and it doesn't seem unrealistic to suppose that the Russian Association for Engineering Education could someday join as well, as suggested in Lerner's post.

For now, ABET evaluates non-Washington Accord degrees using its Engineering Credential Evaluation International (ECEI) service. I expect that ECEI considers foreign PA (or the lack thereof) when evaluating foreign engineering degrees.

If an ECEI evaluation shows that a foreign engineering degree is ABET-equivalent, then this will typically satisfy engineering employers and licensing boards in the US. Since ECEI is affiliated with ABET, their determinations as to ABET-equivalency are normally respected.

 

Cook's is one of the more credible non-ABET engineering programs out there. But it's still not ABET equivalent. For example, the entire Cook's program is done by DL: this means that there is no formal laboratory coursework. Most engineering employers and licensing boards feel strongly that students should get supervised hands-on experience with engineering tools and techniques, and so all ABET degrees have strict lab requirements.

It is typically difficult or impossible to qualify for a Professional Engineer's license with a bachelor's degree from a non-ABET engineering program. Even in Mississippi, where Cook's is licensed, a bachelor's degree from Cook's will not meet the PE education requirements (unless it is supplemented by a graduate degree from a school with ABET programs)

 

Social Work is also one of the professional degree programs, especially for Clinical Social Workers.

Degrees from overseas in Social Work also have to be evaluated
to be equivalent to US Professionally Accredited SW degrees.

Learner

 

Not to confuse with FTU in Florida - what is now UCF

Florida Technological University, nicknamed Florida Tech, from its establishment - it was renamed to University of Central Florida by the State Legislature.
FTU's former rival, the Florida Institute of Technology, has since been known as Florida Tech. In 2003, UCF had the distinction of being the fastest growing university in the United States in terms of undergraduate enrollment, and as of 2005, more than 44,000 students attend the school.

Learner

 

Thank you, CalDog. I appreciate your straightforward answers to questions asked of you. Best wishes, J.

 

Is there any RA school that offers a credible non-ABET engineering programme?

In the case of Cooks, they seem to target experience technicians so at least the lab requirements should not be too far off.

 

There are many good programs that are RA but not ABET, these are in Electronics Technology, I think also Electronics Engineering
Technology

example

Thomas Edison State College is accredited by the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools
In addition to the institutional accreditation, the College's nursing program is accredited by the National League for Nursing Accrediting Commission

The New York Times referred to TESC as "one of the brighter stars of higher learning" and Forbes magazine identified Thomas Edison State College as one of the top 20 colleges and universities in the nation in the use of technology to create learning opportunities for adult students wherever they live and work.

They also offer Nuclear Engineering Technology degree.


DeVry University is

Accredited by The Higher Learning Commission and is a member of the North Central Association (NCA),

Electronics Engineering Technology only these campuses ABET accredited
baccalaureate Electronics Engineering Technology (EET) programs at the Addison, Alpharetta, Chicago, Columbus, Decatur, Fremont, Irving, Kansas City, Long Beach, Long Island City, North Brunswick, Phoenix, Pomona, Tinley Park and West Hills.

The CET and EET programs at DeVry Calgary, offered through DeVry Phoenix, are not eligible for this accreditation.

 

NAPNSC Commission that accreditd Cook is not recognized so
Cook is really unaccredited Engineering program.

In this case I think CA National University degree in Engineering will be better even if its not RA.

Cal National University is DETC accredited.

The cost is high as well, CA NU tuition is to high as well, one may go to an RA university for the same tuition.

Learner

 

It's logical that the Calgary campus would not be accredited by ABET, since it is in Canada. I note in the Devry Calgary on line catalog that

 

There is a common confusion, on this board and elsewhere, between "engineering" degrees and "engineering technology" degrees. These are treated differently in the engineering community, and are accredited separately by ABET. Engineering degrees have ABET/EAC accreditation, while engineering technology degrees have ABET/TAC accreditation.

In practice, the market has looser standards for "engineering technology" degrees than for "engineering" degrees. I understand that there are RA schools that offer credible non-ABET/TAC engineering technology degrees. In contrast, I doubt that there are any RA schools that offer credible non-ABET/EAC engineering degrees.

Note that the US does not have a separate licensing track for engineering technologists (although many other countries do). Thus, ABET/TAC accreditation is not needed for licensure. The closest equivalent is certification by NICET (a private organization) which does require an ABET/TAC degree. However, NICET certification (while respected) is not mandatory. A good techician or technologist can find work without NICET certification or an ABET/TAC degree.

 

Thats correct and this is why I mentioned ET program and not EE.

Now there are ways to make up for not having ABET accreditation.

For example one TESC graduate with Nuc Technology BS degree writes the following:

.

 

I am very curious here about the difference in requirements for an ABET engineering degree and one by the UK Engineering Council in England.

I would like to know how you would determine the equivalence

 

The issue I always worry about with some accreditation is how much do they allow innovation? How do you keep the balance with content and competence?

The UK engineering council seem to be focusing more on competence increasingly. Meaning, what makes a complete engineer.

 

Both ABET (in the US) and the Engineering Council (in the UK) have been members of the Washington Accord since 1989. They each accept degrees accredited by the other "substantially equivalent". So there presumably are no significant difference in degree requirements.

Many employers and licensing boards will automatically accept a foreign degree with "Washington Accord" accreditation. If necessary, ABET could certify its equivalency through its ECEI evaluation service.

The Washington Accord only applies to ABET/EAC engineering degrees. There is a separate "Sydney Accord" for engineering technology degrees, but ABET has not joined it.

 

One interesting observation is that US Professional Engineering license can be achieved after the examinations and the qualifying degree is ABET accredited BSEE, BSCE etc.

In UK the requirement for Chartered Engineer is MEE degree so the UKEC raised the bar to Masters degree a wile ego.

It apears that requirements for Incorporated Engineer in UK are closer to US PE only the degree can be in Technology.

The Washington accord can't guranty the license recognition, the recognition is of the degree only so PE in USA may have to take exams elsewere to become licensed, chartred in Australia or UK.

There is international registry of professional engineers, the rules are very strict.

have at least 7 years of qualifying experience. At least 4 years must be obtained at the time of initial registration as a professional engineer;


have at least 2 years of experience being in responsible charge of significant engineering work as defined in the USCIEP Assessment Statement;



For admission to the USCIEP Registry, an applicant must have been assessed for independent practice by, and be licensed in, one or more jurisdictions of the United States. The USCIEP Right to Practice Statement describes the basic processes and qualifications for becoming licensed to practice in the United States.

Also, it is necessary that the engineer:
be a graduate of an appropriate engineering program accredited under an accreditation system recognized by ABET;


must have taken and passed the Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) assessment examination approved by the NCEES;


must have taken and passed one or more of the Principles and Practice of Engineering (PE) assessment examinations approved by the NCEES;


must have no prior sanctions resulting in a suspension or revocation by any jurisdiction of the engineering practice license;


complete an application for entry into the NCEES Records Program;


have at least five references from licensed professional engineers who are familiar with the candidate's work, character, and integrity;




must be a citizen of the United States of America.

Learner