I'm curious to know why there is so much discussion on this board regarding DETC degree utility when compared to RA degrees but very little concerning ACICS distance degrees. Is this because ACICS schools are primarily B&M? Are ACICS DL degrees just assumed to be in the same boat as DETC degrees? On a day to day basis I see many more television advertisements for ITT tech and it's degree programs than I ever have for any DETC school (and ITT doesn't even have a campus in this state (Conecticut)). I get the impression from such advertising that schools like ITT, FMU, Virginia College, etc. are more direct competition for RA institutions than are DETC schools. Any opinions?
I'd say you've hit upon something there. If I had to guess, I'd say that ACICS-accredited schools, generally, are not taken as seriously even as DETC-accredited schools because of ACICS's history of accrediting mostly two-year (or shorter) programs at small, storefront business institutes located in strip malls. I realize not all ACICS-accredited institutions are like that -- not even most, I suspect -- but my point is that most of its institutions, traditionally, have been of the sort that advertise on weekday daytime television and promise amazing careers to those who enter their 18-month "somethingoranother assistant" training program. You know... the same sorts of places that fight for daytime advertising space with trade schools like Lincoln Tech, for example. Clearly ACICS is trying to change that. Some seriously-impressive two- and four-year undergrad, and two year post-grad programs are ACICS-accredited. It's an accreditor that, in my opinion, should be taken much more seriously than it often is. But, for the moment, at least, of the national accreditors that aren't also specialty accreditors, DETC seems to have the spotlight... and many here argue (and the statistics would seem to suggest that they're not wrong to do so) that DETC doesn't really compete with RA, much less ACICS. Or so it is my opinion.
I think the answer is fundamental: the board was started as a specifically distance learning forum. The name even says Distance Learning Discussion Forums. The DETC is all about distance learning and discussions of RA are relative to their distance learning component. ACICS, particularly at the time this forum was started, had no distance learning offerings to speak of, hence no interest in bringing them into the debates. If ACICS becomes a stronger player in DL , they too will be regular fodder for debate in a DL discussion forum.
Re: Re: RA and ACICS RA schools also have strip mall locations. A friend of mine lives a few miles down the road from a Strayer University strip mall campus.
About hating it when Busho4 is right. A good and valid point... as usual, in your case. However, the number of such institutions, as a percentage of RA versus as a percentage of ACICS, I dare say, is probably vastly lower for RA. Still, it's a good point.
ACICS and DETC (Non-RA) accreditations, in my view, have nowhere to go but up! The promise is clearly there. The QA-enforced performance will hopefully follow. . Quite true. However, Bush04's quote above cites one possible exception to "the" rule, whatever that rule is - and exceptions to the rule (or any rule, for that matter) generally and specifically do not prove anything, contrary to popular idiom. Generally speaking, apart from some documented existences of diploma mills in dark basements, stark garages, and one-bedroom apartments and the like, not much empirical, non-anecdotal evidence exists to show that there exists a statistically significant relationship between RA/NA or DETC/ACICS/other accreditation, degree acceptability, reliability, worthiness, reputation, value, or validity and location. Having said that, though, my advice to sincere education/degree-seekers will be to spend one's time, resources, and efforts at the known, reputable, gleaming campus on a hill or plain or in a legitimately accredited, USDoE-recognized DL program, than give a cent to any looney offshore enterprise, basement office-run scam, or castle-built-on-sand Wyoming-licensed but CA-based (or other state or foreign place) entity. Thanks.
I hear ya about the ITT commercials, they are rampant here in Northern VA, and so is ECPI. They all seem to be on during the day (when I go home for lunch) and try to go after unemployed people. The ITT commercials have a small disclaimer that states "limited transferability of credits" which I found very interesting.
ACICS Damn! Another perfectly good conversation spoiled by a thread-starter's call to stay on-topic! As was pointed-out to me in another thread, ACICS has been slow to embrace DL and sort of treats it almost as if it's saying, "Oh... DL?... um.... sure... why the heck not? We could certainly live with a little DL, too, we suppose." That sort of attitude is a far cry from a ringing endoresement. That said, ACICS has certainly defined "distance learning" in its library of documents, to wit: Distance Learning: A system and a process that connects learners with distributed learning resources. While distance learning takes a wide variety of forms, distance learning is characterized by (1) separation of place and/or time between instructor and learner, among learners, and/or between learners and learning resources; and (2) connectivity, interaction, and engagement between the learner and instructor, among learners, and between learners and learning resources conducted through one or more media. and it has established an accreditation criteria for it in its PDF document, "Principles and Guidelines for NonTraditional Education ." There is also a April 26, 1999 "Distance Education" Accreditation Alert in the archives on the ACICS web site but, like so many links on that site, it's broken and just produces an "Error 404 - Page Not Found" message. I report 'em to the ACICS webmaster, but nothing ever happens. There also seems to be an ACICS Nontraditional Education Committee described on the site as: The mission of the Nontraditional Education Committee is to develop and implement standards and procedures to assess educational quality when utilizing nontraditional education delivery methods (i.e., distance learning, self-paced instruction, and independent study). The committee members are David Luce, chair, Dr. Carmen Claudio, Anna Counts, Lowell Frame, and George Pry. An interesting thing to read, for what it's worth, is ACICS's new, 2005 "Long Range Strategic Plan." Of greatest interest to me are items C and D, to wit: C. Strengthening the Reputations of ACICS and the Career College Sector As its primary goal for 2005, ACICS will complete a petition for re-recognition to present to the U.S. Department of Education. Partnerships with other accrediting and approval agencies will be established. Accreditation parity issues will continue to be addressed vigorously. D. Increasing the Number, Size, and Scope of ACICS-Accredited Institutions ACICS will continue to grow the organization to enhance stability. In addition, ACICS will request recognition from the U.S. Department of Education for an expansion of scope. With what other accrediting agencies, I wonder, does ACICS plan on partnering, and for what purpose and/or with what goals? And, in what ways does it plan to expand its scope? Just askin'
Re: Paul C I am curious, aside from ITT Tech, which ACICS accredited schools have fully distance learning degree programs.
As in my original post: FMU, Virginia College. Also, I believe Coleman College and Everglades College
No deep and significant reason, really. I think that people tend to talk about programs that they are familiar with and are interested in, so we have a big "usual suspects" effect here. More than 90% of DL programs are never even mentioned on Degreeinfo. I think that I'm going to start looking at a different school's website every few days, and starting threads about any interesting DL programs that I happen to find. Yeah, I guess so. There are quite a few ACICS DL programs out there, but you have to search for them. With DETC, you know right off that the programs are all DL. I don't see any significant difference between ACICS and DETC in academic reputation or acceptability. If anything, ACICS might have a slightly higher profile. It accredits more schools, and most ACICS schools are a little more tangible than DETC's offerings, since they offer classroom-based programs. But there's probably more variation within each accreditor's lineup than between them.
Here is something that I have been wondering about ACICS and specifically FMU. Why does one need a RA masters to teach there? Why isn't an ACICS master's degree acceptable? Is this a backhanded endorsement of RA over NA by one of ACICS own members? This website outlines the requirements for teaching at FMU online. http://fmuonline.com/employment.html
ACICS requirement is what I was told. However the Homeland Security vertical is somewhat more flexible in this requirement.
One thing I have noticed from checking the websites of the few ACICS-accredited schools that do offer DL: they don't list the cost of their tuition. That usually means one thing: they are $$$
