Questions -Evaluated in detail by an external evaluator acceptable to ODA

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by laferney, Jul 23, 2005.

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  1. laferney

    laferney Member

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    The ODA states under a handfull of programs (Azaliah, Century University, Pacific Western , Robert University University , Rushmore .Washington International University etc.) that "Oregon employers should consider degrees from this supplier to be substandard unless each degree program is evaluated in detail by an external evaluator acceptable to ODA."
    My questions are:
    1. Who would be an acceptable evaluator ?
    2. Is the person's individual transcript and/or dissertation reviewed by the external examiner, or is the program in the school evaluated by an external examiner ( for example the Psychology Dept. at Century)?
    3. Why are schools listed above given this " option" to have their degree evaluated and others are not? For example Rushmore can , but Adam Smith U. can't?
    Thanks for all responses.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You might email ODA. I'm not sure if you'd ever want to be in the position of needing an evaluation for acceptance.
     
  3. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

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    FWD - I agree with half of what you've said. I think that questions regarding ODA policy and practice are best put to the ODA. If laferney (or anyone else) has questions of this sort they should not be satisfied with third party answers. Go straight to the source. As for the idea of "needing an evaluation for acceptance," I would hasten to point out that this might be a very useful step for people who have earned degrees from non-US (GAAP) universities. It would be an added assurance of the quality of the degree for HR people who are less than familiar with such programs.
    Jack
    (also, laferney, I'm not certain where you got the idea that some schools can have their degrees evaluated by the ODA and others can not, but I do not believe this is the case. I believe that anyone can have their degree evaluated.)
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Jack:
    Sure not a bad idea for GAAP schools.

    But bad idea for this:

    laferney:
     
  5. laferney

    laferney Member

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    Since Mr. Contraras is a frequent visitor to this site and has answered several questions here I feel I am going to the source by posting here and the answer he (or any other knowlegeable person) gives will be of interest to not only me but to others here also.
    I'm not in the position of needing acceptance- I do wonder why some schools (the ones listed) have this added statement "Oregon employers should consider degrees from this supplier to be substandard unless each degree program is evaluated in detail by an external evaluator acceptable to ODA."
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    laferney,
    If it were me I would be more concerned with the following statement from ODA site:



    "Invalid degrees in Oregon
    Degrees from all of these suppliers are invalid for use in state or licensed employment in Oregon and the use of such degrees can result in criminal prosecution or civil penalties depending on the circumstances of the use. In addition, it is illegal to use such degrees or credentials for any purpose unless the user discloses in writing to all persons to whom the degrees is presented that the supplier is unaccredited and unapproved by ODA."



    I think at this point I would come to the conclusion that any degree listed here would simply not work.:eek: What if you go in for approval process and it does not pass? Are you locked up or simply asked to get out of Dodge?

    Dan
     
  7. laferney

    laferney Member

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    I'm not a fan of any of the schools listed. I'm interested in fairness. The quote you listed has no concern for me at all-I don't live in Oregon.

    Jack
    (also, laferney, I'm not certain where you got the idea that some schools can have their degrees evaluated by the ODA and others can not, but I do not believe this is the case. I believe that anyone can have their degree evaluated.)

    Because on the ODA site under the schools I have listed below they say ""Oregon employers should consider degrees from this supplier to be substandard unless each degree program is evaluated in detail by an external evaluator acceptable to ODA."

    For most other schools ODA says ''ODA has no evidence that this is an accredited or otherwise acceptable provider of postsecondary education meeting Oregon standards."

    There is a difference ever so sutle. What makes Rushmore substandard unless evaluated? What if it is evaluated and found ok- does this make the degree acceptable to ODA? (and in theory all degrees offered by that dept.)

    You're right though . Only ODA can answer these questions as it is their policy. I'll e-mail directly to ODA rather than accessing through degreeinfo.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    laferney:
    With all due respect if you don't care about that then why do you care about anything ODA says or does? Get whatever degree you want and forget about ODA or any other state that deems them not useable.
     
  9. Lerner

    Lerner Active Member

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    I think it's a bad idea, actually such evaluation has a major flaw.

    What can stop the substandard school from coming with one or two show cases that have superior education and approach
    of a best practices in DL.

    If this evaluation was on ongoing basis. Then it would maintain the level, but if it’s a one time deal then the level can be dropped and they can go back to sub standard practices but this time have a positive evaluation.

    No substitute to accreditation and on going QA assessment.

    Learner
     
  10. laferney

    laferney Member

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    Thanks to Lerner for pointing out what I couldn't articulate. And my question was based on fairmess. Why do these schools have this "qualifier" "unless each degree program is evaluated...." when others don't. Why is this "qualifier" given to Rushmore or Century, but not Adam Smith U. or others of the same ilk? Does ODA feel these schools may have some value to prove?
     
  11. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman New Member

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    The Oregon statute may not be a concern to you. There is a trend where more and more states are passing laws that are restricting the use of unaccredited degrees. So if your state hasn't already passed such a law then perhaps it will in the future. Is that your real concern?
     
  12. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

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    I'm not especially involved or interested in this process of the ODA although I think it's generally a good thing to try to weed out the mills. My assumption about schools on the list (like Rushmore) is that people with degrees from those schools have gone through the evaluation process previously and so the ODA already has a clear, precise idea of the quality of these programs. If, for example, 10 people with degrees from XYZ University all had their degrees evaluated and all ten were found to be substandard, I too would be tempted to conclude that this was a substandard school. I would also leave the door open for others to go through the evaluation process in the future.
    Jack
     
  13. laferney

    laferney Member

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    To Bill
    The statute itself doesn't pertain to me (directly) as I don't live in Oregon. I like many other posters here of course take an interest in the ODA -in a way the ODA has become the " internet pocket Bear's Guide" by listing "unaccredited schools . degree mills etc" Although mainly for Oregon residents it has implications for all states. Anyone having an interest in DL in general can't ignore it.
    I like the ODA and feel it is a real service- I do question certain aspects of it -why certain schools are excluded from it for example, and my current question posed. I'd have no issues if it came to my state (MA.) -other than as a consumer or citizen who has the right to provide input/questioning of any state agency. Mr. Contreras graciously answers questions from people nationally even though the ODA pertains only to his own state because he is aware of the national implications his agency holds.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    laferney

    "Does ODA feel these schools may have some value to prove?"


    Or call their bluff. Perhaps ODA simply invites schools with some course work required to try for evaluation and those with none are disqualified.

    Aren't there any RA schools with program you are looking for? Walden I think has this.
     
  15. Lerner

    Lerner Active Member

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  16. laferney

    laferney Member

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    FWD
    Aren't there any RA schools with program you are looking for? Walden I think has this.

    What makes you think I'm looking for a degree - I've got 5 RA degrees and a RA CAGS already. Just because I expressed interest in MUA on another link?
    I'm not looking for a loophole-I'm trying to understand how ODA works as a consumer interested in DL. I'm not promoting degree mills or looking to discredit anyone. Just taking advantage of the wisdom shared on degreeinfo. Sometimes it is difficult to get a direct answer to a question due to emotional reasoning on some charged issues. My only reason for this post was that I noted some unaccredited schools (6) had a different wording by ODA that suggested a way to evaluate their degrees that others didn't have and wondered why. Lerner suggested some as you did . I'm sure your statement above was meant to be helpful . I hope I have explained my intention.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    laferney,

    Sorry I thought you were looking at MUA.
    I don't mean to offend but why do you pursue this? As a DL consumer I find unaccredited degrees to be of no value and seek no further any information that might be to the contrary.

    If you do wish to continue you should email ODA or start new thread called "? for Alan Contreras."
     
  18. laferney

    laferney Member

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    I'm not convinced MUA is "unaccredited '' - I do seek out info as things change sometimes. CCU was on the ODA list -now they're not. Many people who wouldn't have studied at CCU a year ago due to their inclusion on the ODA now view it as worthwhile. Azaliah was accredited at one point -now they're on the list.
    Several schools once called diploma mills by ODA are now not called diploma mills-perhaps due to litigation, new info received by ODA or improvements in their program. Many unaccredited schools -once given positive reviews or noncritical reviews in Bear's Guide (and had state approval in CA.) have now declined to diploma mill status. So I seek out any little hint that things may be changing. An example:
    John Bear's Guide to 100 Good Schools once listed Adam Smith U.
    when Adam Smith first came out. But things changed and future Bear's Guides painted a different picture. ODA described Adam Smith as a diploma mill, then dropped the diploma mill label. ODA now says about ASU's accreditation-"Claims Liberian and other accreditation. Current status of Liberian approval is problematic at best. " This is a different statement than said about the St. Regis group of mills. There is a slight implication that maybe there is some legitmacy in their Liberian claim. Is ASU off the list -no.
    A little more creditable -maybe. Perhaps ASU presented some info to ODA. Or perhaps I'm reading into something not there!
    So I do seek info to the contrary-if for no other reason this stuff is just so darn interesting! But's its my area of interest just as you have your special interests about DL. I don't feel offended and I hope I haven't offended . I appreciate your taking time to help me with my postings.
     
  19. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman New Member

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    I believe that GAAP would usually (depending on exact source, of course) consider it unaccredited. I suggest that the following is very convincing.

    So since MUA is not the University of the West Indies, it is not recognized and it is not accredited.

    A bit misleading because you're comparing apples and oranges.

    First a clarification, the ODA NEVER listed CCU as a diploma mill.

    While it is true that many wouldn't have studied at CCU a year ago but would now. I strongly disagree that the reason is the ODA though. The reason is that CCU is now accredited, not because of the ODA. Further, the CCU DBA was significantly inferior. This was discussed many times on degreeInfo before CCU was accredited. CCU had to discontinue this inferior program before they could become accredited. The ODA had evaluated only this inferior DBA program at CCU and that is why CCU was on the ODA list.
     
  20. laferney

    laferney Member

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    I don't believe I said CCU was a diploma mill. I said:
    "CCU was on the ODA list -now they're not. Many people who wouldn't have studied at CCU a year ago due to their inclusion on the ODA now view it as worthwhile. "
    and of course it is off the "list" due to it's obtaining DETC accreditation- which required dropping all it's doctoral programs to achieve.
    I've seen the info you present below in the context of Berne University. MUA is not Berne-most of the responses apply to Berne. It appears AACRAO's decision was based partially on the federal dept of Education's view that BERNE was not eligible to receive financial aid. I agree wth you that several of the other responses would indicate MUA would not be seen as accredited.
    Things amy have changed since 2004 as St. Kitts has improved their standards.
     

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