Question about California, "State Approved" status and BPPE

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by newsongs, Jun 19, 2016.

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  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Certainly, the late Mr. Jeff Brunton, a determined and dedicated attorney, did a fabulous job in closing degree mills in Hawaii. Many were dishonest and broke consumer law in myriad pieces. His was a great and highly successful mission.

    In California, the BPPE is responsible for keeping tabs on unaccredited schools. Their rules, not unlike the ones Mr. Brunton initiated in Hawaii, have more (as I see it) to do with honesty in consumer dealings, than academic excellence.

    FTU Hawaii broke the rules so badly it was ordered closed. I have never heard that FTU California has broken any such rules. I'm sure the BPPE would act, if any such infraction came to its attention. I think that means a major difference between FTU Hawaii and FTU California. The difference, perhaps, between a degree mill and an unaccredited school.

    No, we don't know that, exactly. What we do know is they all say they're highly useful. That's how they sustain demand. Some are; some aren't; the worst are simply a form of trickery - when they work at all.

    IF FTU is as bad as you assert (and I don't think it is, by a fair stretch) - I'd have to say Gabe's done incredibly well. As it is, I still say nowhere near a majority of holders of unaccredited degrees do as well with them as he has. The only potential argument is whether Gabe has done this well because of, or despite FTU. My take is: he likely worked hard to derive the maximum from what FTU offered - and institutions he applied to afterwards probably perceived this.

    As Gabe certainly doesn't need me to defend him - and neither does FTU - I'll shut up now. I've said my piece. Got a new programming language to play with - and some new pics of my grandkids (and chipmunks etc.) to frame. And a ukulele kit to build.

    See ya. :smile:

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2016
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Johann, are you really saying degrees from these schools aren't highly useful to their customers? That they're all being scammed and find out only after the fact that their bought degrees don't help them pass themselves off as real graduates? I'm struggling with that notion. These things aren't a recent fad and are a huge business. Give the number of, um, "interesting" degree claims one can find with even brief searches on LinkedIn, I have to think it's a successful tactic.

    My doctoral research showed that when you give HR people a little bit of information about this topic, their receptiveness of these "degrees" does go down. It clearly pointed to the reason why this market exists: because the buyers use the products they purchase.

    As for "that" school, there is more than meets the eye. As for the BPPE, some experience with them would reveal that they're not nearly as diligent as their mission would indicate. In California, it's pretty much "anything goes." That's why the state is moving to require schools to become accredited. It just can't manage the approval process with any efficacy. (This has been true since the change away from the 3-tier system that happened in 1989.)
     
  3. Gabe F.

    Gabe F. Active Member

    Thank you for the kind words, Johann. I suppose one question might be, "Why would Gabe enroll in FTU to begin with?" Well.....

    My journey started shortly after I got out of the Coast Guard. I emerged from that experience a staunch Libertarian with particularly strong feelings about a small government. I'd never observed such waste and bureaucratic nonsense in all my life. It got to a point where I actually felt guilty about using my G.I. Bill to attend school because, to me, I was taking from one bureaucracy to feed another one.

    Long story short, I enrolled at FTU because it was affordable and seemed legitimate for it was. To be clear, I knew there would potentially be limitations of the degree (and I've faced my share of them), but no one would have been able to convince me otherwise. I thought "Hey, these guys have it figured out... they are avoiding all of this accreditation nonsense and are saving me thousands of dollars." Admittedly, I felt way too self-righteous about my decision..

    So, there it is. The answer to the question that no one asked (but may have been thinking).:wiggle:
     
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    No. First, "these schools" - your term - cover a continuum. Some are really lousy, others well - less than wonderful, but they DO teach and students can, if they exert an effort, get a reasonable (or even better) learning experience from them. As I said, some of "these schools," meaning California unaccredited schools, do a fair job. Other's don't. Usefulness? Depends which school, what you consider "useful" and, above all, what the holder made of his/her learning experience.

    That last applies in spades, particularly in business subjects, which are likely the most frequent offerings. Having taken a few college/university business courses myself, I'm of the opinion that many basic business subjects can be taught effectively without high-priced brilliance or dazzling new methods. Accounting is accounting - economics is economics; mostly, rules are rules, principles are - well, just that. (Marketing in the Digital Age? All bets are off!)

    Excerpt of Dr. Douglas and myself, exchanging views on Frederick Taylor University - Mar 24, 2010 (Another Channel - not DI)

    ME: Do you still think it's a "really bad school" nowadays? Just asking. :)

    DR. DOUGLAS: I took a look at FTU's website after writing that... I was pleased that they seem serious now. All that Hawaii-shadow-university stuff is gone, of course, as are the doctoral degrees. They seem much improved, and I'm glad for them.

    Things seem to have changed back again ... :question: :question: :question:

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2016

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