Psychology MA -> Psy.D -> Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) in Psychology

Hi, First let me thank all the participants. I'm new to this blog -this is my first post.

I currently work in the field of I.T. , I'm 29yrs old Male. In Minnesota currently. Throughout the years I've had an interest in psychology, philosophy, culture/social systems, mind body connection and holistic approaches to viewing people. I also like research a lot. The fields of mind, soul, body, positive thinking, holistic healing intrigue me but I do not want to become a physical therapist, I want to approach these from the mind and cognitive side.

I am considering making a career shift to psychology. Currently trying to figure out what path to follow and what degrees to take. I also am looking at distant learning programs / online programs with a few concerns that I hiope to share with you.

Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

MA -> Psy.D -> Ph.D.

I'd like a certification (requires MA), then Psy.D. (maybe) and then a PhD. The program has to be on a part time basis because I am not planning on leaving my day job.

You may be wondering why I want 3 degrees, let's take a look at my goals - I'd like to:

1. Have a career shift into psychology - continue to make a living as I transition.
2. Teach in colleges or universities
3. Own a practice
4. Conduct research

I'd like to deal with mind/body holistic approaches and bio-feedback, from transpersonal, health, to child psychology and couples counseling as well as hypnosis.

First, I need the MA degree in order to get certified in Minnesota and move on with the career shift and gain experience hours.

In Minnesota, the main difference is that graduates with PsyD can administer copyrighted assessments, they make $10 an hr (from insurance company payments) compared to MA graduates.

I know that I will not going to be please with counseling or clinical practice, I would like to teach in colleges and universities as well. Further, I would like to conduct research.

These last two wishes I believe require a PhD, not a Psy.D

Locally in Minnesota, there's an Adler graduate school (www.alfredadler.edu) offering MA degrees. It is not an online school and it prepares you for certification in MN. Adler psychology is holistic, which is a big plus.

PsyD's are offered only at Capella, Walden and St. Thomas (local school). PHD's are only offered at the University of Minnesota (but this is a Full time grad program that I can't attend)

It seems that I need to get an MA degree then a PhD degree. Maybe a PsyD in between - How do I go by doing this?

Concerns:

My main concerns about an online program are: accreditation, nationwide recognition, and the reputation / respect from potential employers.


I'd like to know that I could move to California and either continue my study, practice or teach in a university.

Help:

Please share your thoughts, ideas, suggestions, reputable distance learning PsyD and PhD schools with me especially those of you who have similar experiences or interests to what I'm describing.

Thanks!!

 

Okay, there's a lot going on there - but I sort of understand as I am in info overload at the moment with the options of actually finishing a BA in Psychology and, for now, an end of goal of a Masters in a field leading to license (for counseling - initials will vary by state

When you say you want to teach, do you want to teach at the community college level or university professor level - the later obviously requires a PhD the former a Masters may work for you.

Licensing - this is will largely dictate what schools and what type of degree you need. Mostly if you are interested in a LPC or LMHC (licensed professional counselor or licensed mental health counselor) then you need a Masters in Counseling or Mental Health Counseling and you will need to check with the state in which you want to be licensed to see what their requirements are as not all programs are created equally some will not have enough credit hours to meet your state's license requirements. Capella, of the online schools is one that is approved by CACREP, which is a huge plus when it goes to getting licensed if your only option is an online school (this program still requires I believe a couple of on-site stints). Also licensing both during school and after requires a lot of hours of internship.

Another counseling option at the Masters level is the MSW (Social Work) degree leading to a license LCSW - again you will have to put in lots of internship hours.

If you're not interested in traditional psychotherapy counseling this second option could put you in more case manager type roles - doesn't really sound like what you're looking for though.

And lastly, if you plan to teach at the university level and conduct research you will need a PhD (not a PsyD - PsyD is a clinical (do therapy) type degree without the major research dissertation component). So if you really want the PhD - then skip the Masters altogether as it will be a waste of time and money. There are schools that will pay your tuition and pay you a stipend to attend at the PhD level. Also there is a lot of info on this subject at: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=207 (I will admit there is an anti online degree sentiment on these forums)

 

$10/hr - doesn't sound like it is worth the effort - did you drop a zero?

 

workingmom, thank you for taking the time and for the info you provided.
The info you provided helped me clarify my path a little. It seems if I want a PhD then an MA and a PsyD are totally useless (cannot be applied towards the PhD).

If I decide that I want to counsel, it seems I have a few options to get an MA degree.

So, it seems I have to decide now, if I want to counsel (MA degree or PsyD) or to become a professor or conduct research(PhD degree)

I wish I could do both, counsel and teach. Is this possible?

Ian, Thanks for posting a reply. yes, the admission person at one of the schools said that the difference in pay between an MA and a PsyD is that insurance companies reimburse the PsyD $10/hr more. The educational cost in $ is huge , you may need 2 yrs for an MA at $30k vs. 5yrs for PsyD at $80K.. I wish education in the US was more affordable!!!!

workingmom, - You said "There are schools that will pay your tuition and pay you a stipend to attend at the PhD level" Now this is amazing , it sounds like it's too good to be true actually but I need to look at this. My problem is, if these schools are not in Minnesota then I have to relocate which can be problematic due to family constraints.

 

Ethan,

I would take a step back and think about what you would like to do in the short term and then pursue that path. There is nothing wrong with long term goals, but you need to start somewhere, yes?

If you are interested in counseling, then (as workingmom has stated), you will need to pursue an MA or MS in Psychology that will lead to a LPC or LMHC. You can pursue this type of program while still working your day job. After your training, if it turns out that you really enjoy counseling, then that's great. You can stop at the Masters level, or continue on and pursue a PsyD.

On the other hand, if you do decide that counseling is not your thing and you would like to move on to research, that's ok - you will still have a Masters degree in Psychology, so not all is lost.

However, if you know right now that you're just not that into counseling people for a living, then your best bet would be to pursue a PhD in Psychology (there are many areas of research that one may specialize in). Many (but not all) PhD programs will allow you to pick up a Masters degree along the way.

Not to discourage you, but keep in mind that doctoral programs in Psychology have some of the most competitive admissions around (even more than med school). You do not necessarily need a Bachelors in Psychology to gain entry, but it will greatly help. In addition to excellent grades at the undergraduate level, you will need to do very well on your Psych GRE and possibly GMAT. Not all programs are this competitive however. Many if not all applicants to the online Psych programs (Walden, NCU, Capella, etc.) gain admission. However, keep in mind landing a post graduate research gig may not be that easy.

For more information on the difference between the PsyD and PhD, check out this site: http://www.psichi.org/pubs/articles/article_171.asp

Good Luck!

Tom

 

Tom, Thanks - You've given me a to think about.

It is good to start somewhere.

I like the idea of counseling and having a practice / office of my own a lot.

My concern is that I may not remain satisfied with counseling and may want to teach, research, or author books - as a result, I may have to take the PhD option in the future

The questions is: If I have to attend school for a PhD program on full time basis, the questions becomes, should I quit work now and attend school full time (and sink in student loans) or quit counseling in the future to go to a PhD program and still sink in debt?

What do you think?

Will the MA degree count towards the PhD?

Are there any online PhD (doctor of philosophy in psychology) programs you would recommend?

I just have a handful of options in Minnesota, the University of MN is great but their program is full time so i have to quit my job now, or quit counseling in the future to attend. Actually, I just looked they require an under grad degree in psychology, which I don't have.

I understand.

I don't want to get into a program that anyone can get into. I have a 3.54 GPA from my BS in computer science and would like a school with good reputation. But, I do not have a psychology under grad degree which some universities require. I worry that easy to get into schools may not be as respected nationwide.

So, which of the online schools have the best reputation?

Distance Learning vs. Online vs. Working Adult - Are they the same?

Do you know of any distant learning programs thru state universities that facilitate to working professionals? I wont mind traveling from time to time if I had to in order to take exams via a distance learning program that is more solid than a purely online program? Or, are distant learning and Online programs the same?

Thanks
Ethan

 

I'm a little confused about what you want but I think you may not realize that all Psy.D. degrees are in clinical psychology and typically for licensure in psychology. Also, you might have a confusion about the Ph.D. in psychology. There are those for just pure research and academic purposes and not for licensure and then...

There are Ph.D.'s in Psychology for licensure as a psychologist much like a Psy.D. does but with more of a curriculum for research. Typically both need to be APA accredited to qualify for most state licensure boards. If you are seeking to practice psychology as a clinician and also do research then you owe it to yourself to go the route of just the Ph.D. in psychology for state licensure and accredited by the APA.

I hope this helps.

 

BlackBird,
Thank you for your reply. Now I see things more clearly.

To all of you,
Thanks guys, talking with you clarified things a lot, I learned in 1 day more than I could do alone in a week.

I beleive I have all my questions answered for now.

To say I am confused is a fair estimate. In fact I am examining many (about 20) potential options for grad school. Thru this I am also going through self discovery to find out what my passion in life really is. I want to be certain that what I study can be satisfying and that I could look back in 20 yrs and be glad for pursuing a certain area of study.

I beleive I know enough now about psychology, I am researching other areas as well. They all relate to the human health and psyche / mind/body , etc..

I have a few obstacles, like money, my age (I'm almost 30), and I'm also married, so relocation can be real hard, also going to school full time can be hard. On the other hand, one has to do what one has to do, it is what it is.. If I find a passion and it requires some scarifies I can see myself going with it. I have the feeling that my career needs to be more meaningful, i need to help people in significant ways, more than what an I.T career allows for. I am trying to find the degree im most passionate about. Then I will deal with any obstacles.

Any thoughts?

I am blogging about my grad school search here: http://www.WholenessBlog.com check it out and leave comments.

 

Update

I thought it would be nice to come back (6 months since my last post here) to share my progress. I've researched all my options and applied to a MA level program in psychotherapy from a local school that is regionally accredited, they are not APA accredit because they only offer MA level not Doctoral level degrees. Did my due diligence and liked what I heard about the school. I am very excited about it, my plan is... well it's exactly what japhy4529 / Tom elegantly stated:

I will start in October 09.

Thanks again for all your advice -- If you visit my blog you will see many articles relating to psychology, degrees, certifications, comparisons, psychotherapy and hypnosis ..