Pope Benedict Has Passed

Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI passed this morning at 9:34 (Roman time) at his residence in the Mater Ecclesiae Monastery.

He was 95 years old.

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/vatican-city/news/2022-12/pope-emeritus-benedict-xvi-dies-aged-95.html

 

The good and the bad, remembered here:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/31/europe/joseph-ratzinger-pope-benedict-xvi-obituary-intl/index.html

 

Really old retired guy dies. Film at 11?

 

On a more serious note, I wonder if people's delights and disappointments in popes has more to do with their projected expectations than the men themselves?

 

Nah - that'd be me.

 

Certainly does - like Presidents, Prime Ministers - and bosses everywhere. Only difference - No female Popes. That, to me, is a problem.

 

As the pope is not only the universal pontiff but also the Bishop of Rome, he would have to be a man per Roman Catholic sacramental theology. According to said theology (which the Roman Catholics largely share, in principle, with the various Orthodox and even the Assyrians), only men are 'valid matter' (to borrow the Latin term) and thus capable of receiving ordination. A woman cannot be ordained a priest nor a bishop in the Roman Catholic Church: ergo, a woman could not become Bishop of Rome nor pope.

Having said so, there are various branches of Anglicanism and similar Protestant groups that would be happy to ordain women for you as priests and bishops. In theory, they could be head of their various communities. So, for example, we have an Anglican fellow in Rome right now, who goes by the title Papa-Prince Rutherford I of Rome-Ruthenia. When he passes someday and if his particular strain of Anglicanism recognizes women's ordination, could we see a Mama-Princess _________ of Rome-Ruthenia? Lord knows!

 

I know that. Have known it for over 70 years. Just hate the whole idea. Roman Catholic Christians aren't the only faith with all-male clerics, either. It's all wrong .... Had to say something.

 

"For me?" They don't have to do anything "for me." They do it for others. And yes, again, I know. And they do other good things too. A well-liked Catholic priest, locally, and a young widow fell completely in love. The priest also loved God and wanted to continue serving Him. Accordingly, he resigned from the Catholic priesthood, was welcomed into the Anglican fold and, shortly after the ink was dry, assigned a church.

That was a few years ago. His Anglican parishioners love him and now, the two are ... four, IIRC - or maybe five. They have a nice little family.

Anglicans 1 - Catholics 0.

 

Those are fantasies of people who are Popes etc. in their own minds. And Ruthenia is medieval Latin for Kievan Rus' - i.e. part of Western Ukraine today. Ruthenia no longer exists as such, except in these people's heads. They should seek treatment.

I'm talking about real people. Many people - many women who are being short-changed -- or worse. And the people who will not have the benefit of the excellent pastoral care and counsel women clergy could provide. Sorry, ladies - I'm on your side in this. I know you didn't ask me to be, and how difficult I am, quite often, so I'll be on my best behaviour.

 

Ruthenia:

The term "Ruthenians" has a dark history, here in Canada. In WW1 Ukrainian immigrants were often referred to disparagingly as "Bukovinans," "Ruthenians," and "Galicians." And, per the War Measures Act, thousands were sent to "camps" where they endured hunger and forced labour. Those here for less than 15 years lost the right to vote. Some of those "campers" built Canadian landmarks - e.g. Banff National Park.

Some quotes:
(1) "During the First World War, thousands of Ukrainian Canadians were imprisoned as enemy aliens due to their origins in the Austro-Hungarian Empire."

(2) "These enemy-born citizens were treated as social pariahs, and many lost their employment. Under the 1914 War Measures Act, "aliens of enemy nationality" were compelled to register with authorities. About 70,000 Ukrainians from Austria-Hungary fell under this description."

Wiki here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Canadian_internment#:
Canadian Encyclopedia here: https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/ukrainian-internment-in-canada

 

Happy New Year! And now back to our regular programming.

 

It's my understanding that the current Pope has decided to "re-examine" the theological role of women (and married men) in the Catholic church. As in, it's possible that there might be women and married men as priests or bishops within our lifetimes. The debate/council has been going on for a couple of years already, I believe, and there might not be an answer for at least a couple more years.

 

Unlike Catholicism or Orthodoxy, I had the impression that Anglican ecclesiology was a bit more, uh, open! While there are some clear communions, my interactions with Anglican clergy led me to believe that, while not formally in communion with one another, they often do recognize even guys like Papa-Prince as equally 'Anglican' as they are.

Sorry if I had misunderstood this.

I was not familiar with the dark history of the term Ruthenian in Canada! I'll definitely have to follow-up on your tip here and read some more.

Out of curiosity, do you know if an overlapping term, Rusyn, had similar connotations in Canada?

I'm not a Roman Catholic, so forgive me if I speak out of turn. Yet, from my reading over the years, my understanding is that the Latin Church has spoken rather definitively on women's ordination, even as recently as the pontificate of Pope John Paul II. He wrote an apostolic letter on this matter, entitled Ordinatio Sacerdotalis.

As to married men being ordained priests, the Roman Catholic Church already has this in their Anglican Ordinariate. Furthermore, the same exists within the Eastern Catholic Churches, which are communion with the Latins.

As to married bishops, I don't know of any apostolic Churches that permit this, Catholic, Orthodox, Assyrian, or otherwise. So colour me surprised if this is actually up for discussion in Rome!

 

True. But the current Pope set up a new council to discuss the matter, I believe, in 2019. (It may have been 2018 or 2020.) As I understand it, the question is whether or not there were "forgotten" female apostles or leaders in the early days of the church. If there were female clergy in the early days, then modern female clergy would be fine. Something along those lines.

 

No, as far as I can determine. Rusyn are a Slavic-speaking minority who live in several Slavic-populated countries - and in other nations. I'm sure we have some in Canada, but most would be identified as being from the countries they lived in before coming here. American-Rusyn publications use the term freely, of course, but no - it's not like the WW1 "Ruthenian" situation in Canada, although it's entirely possible some of those despised "Ruthenians" were ethnic Rusyn.

In the late 1950s, I was in high school with a couple of teens who had definite Rusyn surnames. Their parents had come here from Ukraine, they spoke Ukrainian at home, so we knew these kids as Ukrainians. I never knew about the WW1 "camps" etc. until I took a Ukrainian language course in my late 40s - 1990, I think. In that class, I learned a LOT more than " Скільки коштує пиво" (How much is the beer?")

A bit on Rusyn here from Wiki, for people who might be interested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyns

 

I'm sure you're right - and they most likely DO. I was expressing MY point of view - not the Anglican view. As you may have noted, I have little patience with anyone claiming spiritual authority - real or bogus. Many of them, real and fake, have done, or continue to do real, concrete, palpable harm.

A prime example of harm here, from the obituary article cited, attributed to the late Pope Clement:

"In 1999, Ratzinger effectively silenced an American nun and priest engaged in LGBTQ ministry because they would not affirm the “Church’s teaching regarding the intrinsic evil of homosexual acts.” The nun and priest were “permanently prohibited from any pastoral work involving homosexual persons.”

How am I supposed to admire that?

 

Joseph Ratzinger (aka Pope Benedict XVI) was a scholar and an academician throughout his career. One would think that a forum primarily concerned with academic degrees and studies would have something to say about that.

 

(1) "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones." - Shakespeare.

(2) I think an affirmative answer to Rich's question has been demonstrated in this thread.

(3) The thread was posted in off-topic. That might have something to do with the concentration on topics other than Pope Clement's academic pursuits - and yes, he is said to have been an exceptional scholar. That was mentioned in the obituary article I referenced.

 

Excuse me - I meant Pope Benedict. Timer again.