Place your bets, ladies and gentlemen!

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by nosborne48, Oct 25, 2025.

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  1. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Kim Kardashian took the California General Bar Exam in July 2025! Did she pass? We don't know yet. If I were a betting man, I'd put a very small amount on "Yes". I certainly wish her best luck.
     
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    As we know, the odds are long. And she took a few shots at the Baby Bar before passing. (Although passing it was quite an accomplishment in itself.)

    I hope she succeeds.
     
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  3. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I am ambivalent. Wishing Kim K anything good would get my Swiftie card revoked; on the other hand, that would be great for the concept of law apprenticeship and overall nontraditional Bar qualifications. So, I guess any outcome would be a win in some way.
     
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  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    The NBA betting scandal emphasizes dangers of folks rigging outcomes to win bets. Is Kim betting against herself then I’ll bet the same, :) otherwise I’ll guess she passes.
     
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  5. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    I've never been a fan of hers. (And even if I was, I'm not even sure what I'd be a "fan" of. What, exactly, does she do...??? :emoji_thinking:)

    Beyond all that, I support anyone who puts in the effort to try to better themselves and grow intellectually, socially and professionally. I'd love to see someone who played the role of a spoiled rich ditz for most of her life to reach beyond the stereotype she created for herself and become an accomplished professional anything. Both for herself and because, unfortunately, she's been a popular role model for youths for decades now.

    EDIT: I'm not concerned with how many attempts it takes for her to pass. If it takes her 100 times and she finally does it, that's still something to be proud of.
     
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  6. MaceWindu

    MaceWindu Active Member

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  7. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    My understanding is that the California Bar exam is one of the hardest if not the hardest BAR exam to pass.
     
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  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    It's interesting. I don't think California has returned to the standard Bar Exam but are still using the exam they had Kaplan write for them. CalBar at least implies that the Kaplan tests are enough like the NCBEX products so standard Bar prep will suffice but who knows?
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Here's a question about the CalBar: do they set the number of people who will pass and go down the list to a cut-off? Or do they set a passing score and pass everyone--no matter how many or few--reach it?

    If the test is being used to control the number of people admitted to the bar each year, then the former is more likely.

    What I can't accept is that they set a score without determining how hard the exam is, letting in everyone who passes.
     
  10. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    This question gave me shivers. I'd never considered the possibility of failure based on number of applicants. So I looked it up. ... Good it has a fixed pass score of 1390.

    Note: the multiple reading discussion below is regarding the essay questions on the exam.

    California Bar Exam Grading
    quote:
    To pass the exam in the first phase of grading, an applicant must have a total scale score (after one reading) of at least 1390 out of 2000 possible points. Those with total scale scores after one reading below 1350 fail the exam. If the applicant’s total scale score is at least 1350 but less than 1390 after one reading, their answers are read a second time by a different set of graders. If the applicant’s averaged total scaled score after two readings is 1390 or higher, the applicant passes the exam. Applicants with averaged total scale scores of less than 1390 fail the exam.
    https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Admissions/Examinations/California-Bar-Examination/Grading
     
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  11. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    The State Bar isn’t SUPPOSED to use the exam to limit the number of new lawyers. Do they? I don’t know.
     
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  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I've never been a Bar examiner. I suppose they're volunteers or paid some small fee per test question graded?
     
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  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Given what Bill has shared--that the passing score is set ahead of time and that they pass everyone who meets/exceeds it, there are two possibilities:
    • First, they carefully determine what score would be necessary to demonstrate one has mastered the material, is ready to enter law practice, is likely to succeed, etc. (Not sure what they'd pick.) For example, did you know that the only (ONLY!) function of the SAT is to predict the likelihood of success in one's freshman year? That's it. Nothing else. And it's not even very good at doing that. So, does success at the Bar Exam correlate to success early in one's career? Or is it merely a test of knowledge that, if passed, is a good thing?
    • Second, they could--based on past performances--set a score that will likely result in a pass rate within a certain--desired--range.
    I don't really know what's going on there, but as a trained psychometrician and certified talent developer with nearly 5 decades in the field, my money would be on the second one.
     
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    That they are people paid a small fee to grade tests seems likely. I suspect the same is true for those who write the questions and create the grading rubrics for them.

    According to what Bill shared with us, each test is examined by a small group of graders. It isn't clear if each person focuses on one part of the test or (I think more likely) each person on the panel grades an entire test separately, then they confer to achieve consensus.
     
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    There you go Rich, being practical again, shattering my delusion that my excellent SAT score actually meant something. :D
     
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    It did. Once.

    Regarding test question-writing, the SATs are constructed with questions submitted from community college professors and high school teachers. The ones selected are compiled into one section on the SAT that isn't scored. Students' performances on those questions are correlated to their scores and a difficulty level is assigned to them. But it's a closed system, so almost never does anyone say, "Hey, this question is dumb/wrong/misleading/etc."

    Good test prep companies (like the Princeton Review) teach their students to spot this section and just put their heads down and rest during it. (Despite instructions against it, some go back and work other sections of the test.) I would imagine there are similar dynamics for other multiple-choice admissions tests.
     
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  17. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    "Certified talent developer"? Can you do anything for Justin Bieber?
     
  18. NotJoeBiden

    NotJoeBiden Well-Known Member

  19. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    She doesn't need anyone to blame nor to make any excuse. The California General Bar Exam has always had a high failure rate. If she keeps at it, she will pass eventually.
     
  20. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    His music isn't to my taste, but he's won two Grammys (and dozens of other awards), sold 150 million records and set 35 Guinness World Records. How else would you judge talent?
     

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