"Personal Enrichment" Degrees

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Kizmet, May 16, 2013.

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  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Recently we had a thread in which some people expressed opinions about the prospect of earning a degree "for the sake of learning." I have to confess that I really don't know what I think about this idea. To me it seems a little bit like buying food, putting it in the fridge and then throwing it out two weeks later because it can't be eaten. I'm spending money and getting nothing in return. If all I wanted was "to learn" I could do that on the net, at the library or by talking to other people. The way I think about it is that the degree represents something. It's somewhat intangible but it's a symbol to ourselves and to others that we've accomplished something and we're expecting that they will recognize this accomplishmnet in some way, even if it's not in regards to employment or money but maybe in another more abstract manner. Or is it? Is my thinking just way off? Is it possible to spend lots of money, time and effort and reallyreally not expect anyone, anywhere at anytime to acknowledge this work? That would be pure "personal enrichmnet" but it seems to me to be more than a little bit like entering into a convent/monastery. I think that most people actually do expect ROI but the currency can not be measured in dollars. What say you?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2013
  2. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    I'd say a lot, not all, Harvard Extension School students claim they are studying for "personal enrichment". In reality, a large portion of them are doing it to say they are a Harvard grad, which I guess in a way is a form of "personal enrichment....
     
  3. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    I have looked at a few programs for personal enrichment. "I'm spending money and getting nothing in return." has to start with the definition of nothing. The something I would get would be the sense that I finished something just "for me". I know I could just read a few library books but some may want to go beyond that. I have completed things and expected nothing in return and no recognition and no monetary reward. I just did it to do something I wanted.
     
  4. expat_eric

    expat_eric New Member

    Taking a formal program for personal enrichment makes sense to me. If I just have a book to read with no deadline and no skin (money) in the game it is very likely that I will not finish. By enrolling in a formal program like a degree it allows me to set a goal and achieve milestones (course completions) as I go. Is this something I would sacrifice food on my family's table for? Absolutely not. Is this something I would do if I had the money to spend? Certainly.
     
  5. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    If you wanted to learn something that was physically difficult, like golf or tennis, you could try practicing on your own.
    But maybe you would get better results if you paid a knowledgeable coach to help you learn.

    If you wanted to learn something that was mentally difficult, like linear algebra or Chinese, you could try studying on your own.
    But maybe you would get better results if you paid a knowledgeable teacher to help you learn.
     
  6. suelaine

    suelaine Member

    I think it is fine for people to pay for personal enrichment degrees as long as they can afford it and are not doing it somebody else's dime.

    I do understand loving to learn, and I embrace the concept that one can learn almost anything he/she wants through the resources out there: Internet, libraries, connecting with others knowledgeable about a topic (but not in situations where they would pay that person for teaching them). I am currently taking a Saylor course, mostly because it is a topic I want to learn. I love the fact it costs me nothing and I will get a certificate at the end. It is not accredited and is not likely something I would add to my resume. I still like that I get a certificate. But the bottom line is I don't have any problem at all with how people choose to spend their hard earned money, if it is THEIR hard earned money they are spending.
     
  7. ebbwvale

    ebbwvale Member

    It is sometimes related to where you are in life. As you get older or perhaps ill, your priorities may get redefined. You may tend to follow your passion more and your wallet less. Is a narrower based professional education worth more than a broad based education? An old debate.


    I think that education has become narrower, albeit more indepth on topic areas. Like most people, this made sense to me and it was all about business and anything else was a distraction from the main game. I am not so sure now. I recently found out, for example, that the Hindu Sacred texts argued that everything comes in waves. I now wonder if the people researching quantum mechanics had read this text? Is this related to the Elliot Wave Theory in technical analysis of the sharemarket? Perhaps there is connectivity between knowledge bases that makes broad based education and perhaps learning for the same of learning more relevant. Professional knowledge bases are not necessary "islands" and that greater breadth of education may allows a greater wisdom for professional practice. Perhaps a passionate embrace of more generalized learning opportunities that have no specific or obvious commercial payback may lead later to a wider understanding of life that is reflected in business outcomes?

    It is true that pursuit of this knowledge does not need to be reflected in an award of a degree, but the degree structure provides a focus for meaningful learning. It may not also require accreditation or recognition to the same degree, although there is no substitute for quality.
     
  8. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    No surprise to anyone, I'm sure, that I feel the same way. I have a bit of trouble believing that someone who gets an online degree anywhere whose price is not comparable to UNISA (which basically limits the choice to UNISA or UNISA) does it solely out of interest in the subject.

    Not that I'm saying it's a bad thing, but OF COURSE these people enjoy the vanity of having the degree. They could, in most cases, learn without pursuing degree just as ryoder can bench press without going for his high school's record and I can be a Connect Four wizzard without ever entering a tournament. But all of the above enjoy the thrill of the pursuit and perhaps benefit from there being recognition for reaching a certain level. Really, how far would marathoners run if there was no officially recognized finish line?

    I feel like I'm contradicting myself... maybe I'm just evolving? Now, if I was a retired billionaire and needed something to do with my time, I could see myself doing a degree for fun, but it would be on campus. So I can argue with the professors, obviously.
     
  9. Boethius

    Boethius Member

    Kizmet, great topic!

    It’s been brought up several times in this forum and I brought it up recently in my “European Doctorates” thread. Each time, the question is asked under a somewhat different context, which is why it is always worthwhile to discuss.

    Let’s face it: ideally, distance learning allows us to pursue formal education at lower cost. The quality of education via distance ranges depending on cost, format, requirements, faculty, accreditations, etc. It’s good for some people but not for others depending on the need, purpose, state in life, etc.

    When I became a member of this forum last year, I listed my degrees: BA in Economics, MA in Religious Studies, and MPA. I earned all of them in B&M RA schools. Then I decided to remove my degrees from my signature line. I figured “Why list my degrees? Who cares? Does it mean anything? Am I educated?”

    I’d like to think I’m educated but I realized that the act of truly educating oneself is an ongoing process. Some people see it this way and others don’t care. Just the other day I had a discussion with someone about Spain and Italy. The conversation inadvertently lead to the history of Italy, which eventually lead to Ancient Rome’s Second Punic War. I showed my friend the route Hannibal took through Europe to surprise the Romans (up and around through Spain, France, Switzerland and back down through Italy). The person asked me, “And why do you need to know that? What do you get from knowing that?”

    Again, who cares? My friend thought I was smart about useless information in terms of “utility” and “ROI,” concepts limited to figuring out how much financial reward one can gain from obtaining “specialized knowledge.” We often discuss utility and ROI in this forum because most who seek degrees via distance want to improve their chances of getting a better job and pay. The profile of these folks (including myself) are typically people who are already in the labor force and are usually not your early twenty -something- year-olds (although there are some wonderful exceptions!).

    Personally, I love reading classical literature and culture, learning Latin, philosophy, and theology. I own almost 3,000 books and hold about 160 books on my Kindle (which I carry with me every day). I’m a learner and that will not stop. I got more from my MA in Religious Studies than I did from my MPA. In fact, I’ve had more professional breakthroughs in terms of promotions and pay because of my research, writing, and presentation skills in my government work because of the skills I learned from my MA program. By comparison, I have yet to experience the same kinds of breakthroughs from the skills and knowledge I learned from my MPA program. Thus far, the only utility and ROI I got from my MPA was from teaching MPA courses as a part-time lecturer at the university – not from my full-time day job in government.

    Would I like a doctorate in philosophy? You bet I would! A doctorate program would provide me some structure, focus, and a challenge. Is it one of my priorities? No. But the advent of distance learning has made it possible for me to entertain the idea.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2013
  10. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I can more easily see myself earning a PhD in Philosophy than I can see myself earning a Masters in Engineering. The Engineering degree would do wonders for my career but the fact is, I think it would be tedious and uninteresting. The Philosophy degree would be useless but adventurous and fun. I fully believe in "personal enrichment" degrees and I believe they have their own currency in the ROI equation. I'm raising this issue to try to put a finer point on the concept of ROI.
    It's not just about money (to me).
     
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    And yet earlier you said:

    Which is it? :question:

    Johann
     
  12. Boethius

    Boethius Member

    I think we've discussed this before on this forum, about those pursuing a doctorate because they want to be called "Dr." If that's what makes them happy, then I say go for it. Me? I wouldn't tell anyone except my wife, kids, and close friends. The only time I would list the degree is in a syllabus for a college course I am teaching and on the agenda at a conference where I would present a paper. Since my PhD would be for personal enrichment, no need to make it public.
     
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    My take - learning for personal satisfaction is by far the best kind. I was lucky. My higher-ed didn't really start till my 40s, when I finally had a bit of money I could spend on it. (I'm 70 now.) I took exactly what interested me - computer programming, psychology, creative writing, languages, art history and .... Yes, Boethius - I'm a Latin enthusiast too, but luckily, I had some years of that in my early life, to build on.

    It's been great - but not everybody has that luxury, especially when young. My sympathy goes to those who have to take a bunch of courses they don't really have a feeling for, in the hope of qualifying for a job that they might well not get. In particular, it goes to those who have to undertake serious debt, even to get to such a precarious position.

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2013
  14. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    This is why I continue to pump UNISA as a source of legitimate degree that are also low cost. Also, I totally get the idea of structured learning. I think the main reason I washed out of the University of London was because it was so unstructured. Once my life stops being a disaster area I might try it myself.
     
  15. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    graduate school is too much freaking work for it to be totally "personally enriching." I have YET to take a class, even from Haaaavard, that didn't suck the fun right out of the subject. I like to read, watch, and write what I like. School isn't that. School is being told what to read, watch, and write so that you can have a credential.
    However, in every case, I did learn. So, in essence, I'm enriched. But, you can bet your sweet patootie that my latest degree will go on my resume. I'd assume someone genuine in their pursuit of a "personally enriching" degree would leave it off?
     
  16. ooo

    ooo New Member

    For the challenge.

    For the classmates.

    It's more fun to say "I'm earning an MA in Literature" than to tell people "oh, I'm reading a few books."

    There's structure in a degree. You can only teach yourself so much from books and learning on your own.

    There's a milestone once you achieve the learning... in the form of a degree and a certificate on the wall.

    You get to learn with classmates then celebrate the accomplishment at graduation. Your friends and family get to celebrate that achievement with you. Personally, I wouldn't be as excited to go "celebrate" a friend having read some textbooks on their own at their house. Graduation with professionals in the field grading you on exams/papers after teaching you, a structured degree program, a graduation celebration with classmates, and a milestone to acknowledge. A friend reading some textbooks just isn't the same.

    I don't understand the people who have 10+ degrees, but I can understand doing some degrees for fun. 10 plus degrees would be an enormous amount of time, money, and sacrifice. That many would affect your relationships and life.

    Say you like basketball. You take lessons or play on a team. That costs money. But, it's better, more fun, and more of a challenge to play on a team (where you make no money, only pay to play) than to kick the ball around a few nights a week on your own. You can't always challenge or teach yourself everything.

    That food in your fridge you didn't use? Yes, it costs money. I bet you could find cheaper off-brand or off-label food that serves the same purpose. You don't need Starbucks or steak when you could survive off of romen. So, why do you buy the more expensive or better variety of food? Because you enjoy it.

    I would say there's a fine line between enjoying the "hobby" of studying, or model trains, or cooking nice food, or whatever else. If you're on welfare getting financial aid, getting degrees just "for fun" isn't acceptable to me. Neither are other hobbies, like model train collecting or internet forums/googling or art or intramural sports that cost money (or time). If you're starving and your family is living in poverty or on welfare so you can get a degree in art "for fun" from Harvard, that's also no ok in my book. If, however, you're self-sufficient and your dependents aren't suffering for your "hobby of studying," a degree for fun is just like any other hobby so long as you're self-relent and able to afford tuition.

    Most hobbies cost money, whether sports or studying or cooking or internet use or playing an instrument or art or gardening or traveling,... there's a benefit in enjoyment of these things, so long as you can afford it and still have a job to be self-reliant.

    We get "nothing" out of our hobbies. No one pays us to make model trains, play intramural hockey, walk our dog, clean our house, have friends, to be on web forums, to make art, to read classic literature, do volunteer work, learn to read, watch the news, clean up the local playground, mow our lawn, to vote, or do any many other things. Some things we lose money (or money in terms of time on), such as volunteer work, having kids, voting, educating ourselves or others. But, we get some either enjoyment or the community gets some social good out of them. An educated society is better than an uneducated society.

    You like coins, model trains, or whatever? You're not getting paid to collect them or make them. Why do it?

    You enjoy the hobby.

    I'm guessing that's-- enjoyment-- is why a person would want to get a degree "for fun," along with having professionals in the field teach them (you can only teach yourself so much), the milestone of accomplishment (a degree on the wall beats saying "oh, I read some books on my own), the degree structure, the classmates, the challenge, the timeline (set degree path, not reading a few books when you feel like it), and being challenged by professors beyond what a person could teach themselves.... those are good reasons.

    I don't think it's wise for an 18 year old to go into massive amounts of debt for any degree that doesn't have solid and well-paying job prospects. Nor do I think a working adult should go into huge debt for a "degree for fun" (or into huge debt for granite countertops, their intramural soccer team, their dream vacation, a yacht, overpriced cars beyond their means, etc.) But, this thread seems to be talking about already working adults supporting themselves with fine income who can afford tuition without the debt. So long as a person is supporting themselves with their own job and pays for tuition, a "degree for fun" after you're in a career is just like any other hobby, whether that hobby is soccer, volunteering, model trains, or whatever other hobby.

    Hobbies don't pay us-- we get enjoyment, challenge, competition, learning, and sometimes professionals who teach us those hobbies at a level beyond what someone could teach themselves.

    I wouldn't want to go to a "self studied" medical doctor who read some books on his own, would you? :)
     
  17. Boethius

    Boethius Member

    It depends on the job you're applying for. If it doesn't require a doctorate, leave it off the resume.
     
  18. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Where's Cute Deedle? She describes her graduate study at Harrison Middleton University as very personally enriching, and it's not like one studies the Great Books for career advancement.
     
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    All the fun? Well - that's phenomenal suction...and I'm sorry Canisius College professors sucked all the fun out of every single class when (I presume) you liked the field of study to begin with and paid considerable money, too. The school is not that many miles from where I live and has an excellent reputation - and a price-tag to match. I'm truly sorry that they took all the fun out of your chosen field of study...and charged you for it, big-time.

    The only experience I have with "Haaah-vahd" was not grad school - it was a freebie: complete set of downloaded lectures from the Extension course in Digital Photography. Dynamite professor - no fun-sucking I could perceive, but then I didn't have to turn in assignments - not that I think I'd have minded.

    If somebody loves, say 19th-century French literature, do you really think that undertaking grad study would be likely to destroy their love of the subject? Well, it could, I guess -anything can happen. But I'd say - and hope - the odds are against it.

    As far as degrees on/off a resume go, I'd say that's personal choice. If you earned the degree fair-and-square, for whatever reason, you've earned the right to display it or not -- as you choose.

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2013
  20. Boethius

    Boethius Member

    Well said.

    Now here's the other side of the coin. Having many degrees. What's that all about? I guess if you have the time and money, and no life, it's all good.
     

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