Person With A Columbia Pacific PhD

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by dlkereluk, Jan 8, 2006.

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  1. dlkereluk

    dlkereluk New Member

    What would be your opinion of a person that listed a PhD as part of her list of qualifications? How would one be able to tell if the degree was obtained when CalPacU was state approved or otherwise?

    The reason why I ask this question is that I've come across a person who lists a degree from this institution as part of her credentials. The minimum required for the position is an MA, the person in question has obtained from an unquestionably legitimate university.

    Since the PhD is superfluous to the position and the person in question is acting is a very adjunct type of position, I do not intend to make further inquiries beyond the informal one that I am making here today.

    Thanks,

    Darren.
     
  2. AdAstra

    AdAstra Member

    Was CPU ever state approved?

    And does mean it was regionally or nationally accredited?

    If it ever was one of the above, I guess you could casually find out if that PhD was granted during that time.
     
  3. dlkereluk

    dlkereluk New Member

    The information that I have from an old version of the Bears' Guide was that they were state approved at a time. As far as I can tell, there seems to be no mention of any type of legitimate accreditation.
    (Also see: http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/News/cpu.html)
     
  4. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Columbia Pacific was one of the first schools in the state to get state approval, back when there was a dual system in place: authorization for entire schools, and approval for specific programs. When authorization was eliminated, they had institutional approval until their renewal was denied around 1995.

    --John Bear, who consulted with
    CPU from its planning stages
    (1978-79) through the early 80s
     
  5. dlkereluk

    dlkereluk New Member

    The 14th edition of your book is the what prompted my recollection of this place. I knew that there was a period of state approval, but after that, things kind of fell apart.

    I really ought to get some Euros together for a new version of your daughter's endeavour in this field.
     
  6. AuditGuy

    AuditGuy Member

    Most HR departments would treat it like this

    The PhD is basically a fake and does not count as a credential. Therefore they still have the Masters to technically qualify for the degree, but they have shown themselves to be dishonest in the first place and would not be considered for the position.
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    On what basis do you determine that "Most HR departments would treat it like this"?

    To my knowledge, I'm the only one who's conducted research on this subject. The conclusions of that research differ from your stance.
     
  8. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    What would be the stance of most HR departments on this issue?
    A) The guy's still master's qualified.
    B) The guy's dishonest.
    C) Something else?
     
  9. Hi John and others,
    From the California Bureau's website:
    "The court denied CPU's request for a stay of the Council's decision (Earon note: made in 1995). Therefore, as of June 25, 1997, CPU has not possessed an approval to operate as a postsecondary institution in the state of California".

    Any degree issued by CPU before that date is recognized by California authorities as State Approved. Still, there is the baggage associated with the degree. We (alumni) have been working with numerous alumni since 1999. Most graduates were unaware of the problems and little or no effort was made to contact them. I have rigorously followed this situation since the beginning.

    Some comments were made in 1998 on the CPU website by then president Dick Crews, MD. Back then more information was actually being released by John that by CPU. I collected California court documents throughout the whole process and am in possession of all of the rulings, arguments, testimony, etc. Hardly any of the alumni have known about the school's problems, so I doubt there was any intended dishonesty by the graduate.

    earon
     
  10. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I'm glad that you asked for our opinions, not for a rule to follow. There's always going to be an element of individual judgement in these things.

    Personally, my opinion towards Columbia Pacific is modestly favorable. I know that here in the SF bay area in the late 70's, CPU did receive some recognition from traditional academics and real work was done there.

    What would I think of a CPU Ph.D.? Probably...

    A. It does represent a real accomplishment.

    B. It isn't clear if that the accomplishment is equal to a conventional Ph.D. from an accredited university. For some graduates it might be, but for others that might not. Consistency and quality control aren't really unaccredited universities' strong suits.

    C. Given CPU's 70's-ish 'alternative' orientation, the subject matter of work done there might have a rather high flakiness factor. I kind of liked that, but then I'm a flake myself. The straights from the suit-and-tie set might be less tolerant.

    Then this degree probably falls within the category of 'additional education'. Additional education is always a good thing.

    If somebody studies down at the library, I don't think it's something to hide or to be ashamed of. Claiming an academic degree changes things, but in this case I'm reasonably confident that it represents real work, though how much and what kind isn't exactly clear.

    So... bottom line... I'd probably be inclined to respond favorably to this person. I might even see her as a kindred soul and want to ask her about the experience.

    Of course, if she is acting like a little princess, parading around insisting that everyone address her as "doctor" or something, then I'd respond differently. But I don't like snobs with accredited degrees either.
     
  11. maggiepie

    maggiepie New Member

    Worried

    Hello,

    I am having a quandry..I went to a traditional University for my BS in Journalism with no regrets..in fact I deeply enjoyed it. I am now going to a nationally accredited University....thank goodness I did not pay...GI bill did, However, I am very scared about going to NCU...I would love to teach at a Community College level and that is my goal, but I do not want to feel stupid or small...should I just call my losses and go for NCU for my PhD? or re-do my Masters at a regionally accredited university that offers an online program such as University of West Alabama? I also heard that while some Universities hold a regional accreditation, their in house online programs do not...is this true? My e-mail is below, if anyone can help me out it would be a great thing,

    I appreciate it,

    Respectfully,
    Jana

    [email protected]
     
  12. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Originally posted by AdAstra
    Was CPU ever state approved? And does mean it was regionally or nationally accredited? If it ever was one of the above, I guess you could casually find out if that PhD was granted during that time.


    CPU Was state approved for several years (see Dr. Bear's response above). It never was accredited (regionally or nationally) by a recognized agency.

    Originally posted by AuditGuy
    Most HR departments would treat it like this

    The PhD is basically a fake and does not count as a credential. Therefore they still have the Masters to technically qualify for the degree, but they have shown themselves to be dishonest in the first place and would not be considered for the position.


    Prior to its loss of state authorization, CPU degrees were legal and, while not accredited, seemed to work well for the likes of John Gray, Barbara DeAngellis and many others.

    I have known persons with RA masters degrees and CPU doctorates working as adjunct faculty (where the position required a masters). Since they held a non-accredited doctorate, they were paid at masters, not doctoral, level.
     
  13. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Re: Worried

    Originally posted by maggiepie
    Hello,

    I am having a quandry..I went to a traditional University for my BS in Journalism with no regrets..in fact I deeply enjoyed it. I am now going to a nationally accredited University....thank goodness I did not pay...GI bill did, However, I am very scared about going to NCU...I would love to teach at a Community College level and that is my goal, but I do not want to feel stupid or small...should I just call my losses and go for NCU for my PhD? or re-do my Masters at a regionally accredited university that offers an online program such as University of West Alabama?


    Hello Jana,

    The masters is typically the entry credential required for community college teaching (unless you are teaching in certain vocational areas). Speaking from many years of sitting on hiring boards at community colleges and universities, I can tell you that not having a masters from a regionally accredited university will hurt you--much more than if you have an NA bachelors and an RA masters. Depending on the subject area, we would typically have between 30 and 90 applicants for full-time faculty positions, so we had the luxury to not have to consider anyone without RA degrees.

    Pursuing your doctorate from NCU should make you competitive (since most community college faculty do not possess doctorates), but most community colleges will pay attention to your masters. Getting a second (RA) masters and then pursuing an NCU doctorate would be your safest bet. You can (and should) pursue a teaching position as soon as you complete your masters, your NCU doctorate will qualify for salary increases. This is the usual path that my colleagues with DL doctorates have followed and it has worked quite well for them.

    I also heard that while some Universities hold a regional accreditation, their in house online programs do not...is this true?


    No. This is not true. Regional accreditation covers the entire university and all of its programs.

    [email protected]

    I will send this by e-mail as well.
     
  14. philosophy

    philosophy New Member

    I would have the candidate be considered against all other candidates. The degree that was earned was a Ph.D., from a state-approved school. This would be treated the same as a person who graduates from an unaccredited school. There would be no consideration given for this type of degree. The degree should be either regionally or nationally accredited. I would not disqualify the person from being considered just because the degree isn't nationally or regionally accredited. I would do the proper steps and consider all the candidates and if all the information came back favorable i.e. references, personality assessment, interviews, recommendation, etc., I would base my decision on who I thought was the best qualified. If a person purposely was out to defraud and gave you a credential that listed it from a questionable source than I would definately feel differently about it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2006
  15. dlkereluk

    dlkereluk New Member

    Thanks

    I'm in kind of a position whereby I will tend to accept that she's qualified for the tutor and course coordinator positions by virtue of her MA.

    I can understand that people from CPU may certainly have earned their degrees and have done a lot of work to do so. The concern from my point of view is that "attending" an institution that is suddenly touting it's new recognition from an RA agency only to have one of its staff members list a degree from an institution for which specific dates about its when it was granted are necessary to determine the degree's validity (this is a terrible sentence if I've ever seen one--please forgive my grammar this afternoon) should do a better job of checking into these things and reporting them to consumers/students. I've seen university calendars (elsewhere in the same province) that list the date that an individual was first hired, and often a second date that lists the date that they obtained their current position (often it's a matter of going from asst prof to assoc prof, and so on).

    Thank you all for your input. I think that given what I've read in your replies, that I'll leave things as they are, since she does meet the minimum requirements for the position. If it happens that I get her as a tutor in the future, I will inquire about the degree at that time, as is my right under provincial legislation.
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

  17. dlkereluk

    dlkereluk New Member

    No, no, my friend, you've got me wrong. If the degree was earned during the time that CPU was state approved, then it's "all good", as my nephew would say. I only would begin to have a problem if the degree was earned during the period of non-state approval or during the "accreditation" by a nonwonderful and nonapproved agency, to use Bear parlance.

    For example, if she listed her CPU degree in the same way that Earon Kavanagh does, then there'd be no worries. Bill, Rich, Anthony and others have also offered valuable information that leads me to think that it's frankly not that great of an issue for me to be concerned about at this time. I can say that if she was to treat me for bipolar disorder or some other related illness, that I would indeed be checking out the date that she earned her CPU doctorate.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    This article seems to question a CPU degree of any year approved or not.

    http://www.ptreyeslight.com/stories/dec24/chileno.html

    from article:
    "Deputy Attorney General Asher Rubin blasts the school in his complaint, calling it "a diploma mill which has been preying on California consumers for too many years." The suit also calls Columbia Pacific a "phony operation" offering "totally worthless [degrees]...to enrich its unprincipled promoters."
     
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    There is a deeper, politically driven issue underlying all of this. Please don't take this politician's statement as prima facie evidence that CPU was a diploma mill.

    Having received quite a few resumes with fake degrees listed, my policy has been to dismiss the candidate, whether or not the degree in question was required. (For example, I wouldn't interview someone at UoP for adjunct positions requiring a master's degree if they listed a diploma mill doctorate along with an RA master's.) I would not take that approach with someone listing a CPU doctorate. I just wouldn't consider the degree in my decision-making. Listing a CPU degree isn't a fraudulent act.
     
  20. dlkereluk

    dlkereluk New Member

    Unless it was obtained outside of the period of state approval...
    I'm new at the HR thing, Rich, so I'm tending to be paranoid about qualifications and references.
     

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